About Natural light photography. So I got to wondering about things. Exposure

[kundalini]

This thread concerns only one.

Yet, the OP began this thread with an arguement between two light sources. The argument was a failure to begin with. As been mentioned, having the ability to choose between light sources IS THE BENEFIT. Knowing how to manipulate whichever light source is THE SKILLSET.

 

[Derrel]

1. ALL light is natural. There is NO SUCH THING as a synthetic photon.

2. Photography is nothing more than recording light. Good photography requires a knowlege of HOW to control and modify light. A photographer saying that he/she will not/should not use a flash is like a carpenter who says that he/she will not use a hammer, but rather will drive nails with their fist because it's "natural carpentry".

Sorry, but all light is NOT natural light...this is a fun new semantics game that some people here like to play [usually the same two people, post after post after post]...I guess it gives them a thrill...but there is a decades-long history of differentiating between "natural light" and "artificial light" in both photography, and cinematography, as well as in the field of architecture.
ar·ti·fi·cial   [ahr-tuh-fish-uhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
made by human skill; produced by humans ( opposed to natural): artificial flowers.
2.
imitation; simulated; sham: artificial vanilla flavoring.
**********
ar·ti·fi·cial (är

t

-f

sh

l)
adj.
1.a. Made by humans; produced rather than natural.
b. Brought about or caused by sociopolitical or other human-generated forces or influences: set up artificial barriers against women and minorities; an artificial economic boom.


2. Made in imitation of something natural; simulated: artificial teeth.
3. Not genuine or natural: an artificial smile
**********
Definition of ARTIFICIAL
1:humanly contrived often on a natural model : man-made <an artificial limb> <artificial diamonds>


2a : having existence in legal, economic, or political theory
b : caused or produced by a human and especially social or political agency <an artificial price advantage> <artificial barriers of discrimination>
**********
(är't&#601;-f&#301;sh'&#601;l)

adj.

1. Made in imitation of something natural: an artificial smile

***************

1
made or produced to copy something natural; not real
an artificial limb/flower/sweetener/fertilizer
artificial lighting/light

2
created by people; not happening naturally
A job interview is a very artificial situation.
the artificial barriers of race, class and gender

3
not what it appears to be
*********


From Lowel, the famous manufacturer of artificial lighting equipment's GLossary of Lighting Terms: Glossary of Lighting Terms


"Artificial Light
An ambiguous term that refers to light produced by electricity as opposed to a Natural source and to illumination introduced to record images. Depending upon how it is used, it looks either artificial or natural."




"Natural Light
Nature's illumination: daylight, even on interiors. The term implies that the source is not artificial."
**************


Come on people, quit being natural douchebags (as opposed to artifical ones! lol)...Do you fail to realize that the term "artificial light" has a long, long history in the field of photography? How is it that you fail to understand the century-old concept that light that is created by the hand of man is NOT NATURAL LIGHT, nor is it natural lighting? Light created by the DIRECT efforts of humankind has been referred to as "artificial light" for well over 100 years. Let's stop this stupid B.S.. It only makes you look like asses.


So, to those who say electronic flash is "natural light", please explain it in view of the above definitions. Is natural light the brief burst of photons emanating from a flash that was made of plastic and metal and glass components, assembled in a factory, shipped to the destination, and then fitted with batteries made in India, and triggered by the triggering circuit in a 2,000-part $2,699 d-slr camera....that is not "natural light"...seriously...that is ARTIFICIAL LIGHT.

The first to stop this stupid charade gets a 10-carat synthetic diamond ring or tie pin--your choice! Retail value $59.99!

 

[davesnothere11]

I disagree - photography of any type relies heavily on the physics related to the transmission of light (colour temperature, inverse square law, angle of reflection, etc). Helping photographers understand these physics will help them be better photographers. Why do you feel that an incorrect convention is something which should be perpetuated?

I don't see it as an incorrect convention.

Sunlight and light such as the aurora borealis occurs irregardless of man and can by convention referred to as natural light.

Man makes a flash and batteries to operate it to make scientifically the same light is no by convention the same. It is man made light.

The scientific make up of both light particles is the same but situationally there are differences that a beginner needs to learn.

 

[davesnothere11]

Sorry, but all light is NOT natural light...this is a fun new semantics game that some people here like to play [usually the same two people, post after post after post]...I guess it gives them a thrill...but there is a decades-long history of differentiating between "natural light" and "artificial light" in both photography, and cinematography, as well as in the field of architecture.
ar·ti·fi·cial&ensp; &ensp;[ahr-tuh-fish-uhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
made by human skill; produced by humans ( opposed to natural): artificial flowers.
2.
imitation; simulated; sham: artificial vanilla flavoring.
**********
ar·ti·fi·cial (ärt-fshl)
adj.
1.a. Made by humans; produced rather than natural.
b. Brought about or caused by sociopolitical or other human-generated forces or influences: set up artificial barriers against women and minorities; an artificial economic boom.

2. Made in imitation of something natural; simulated: artificial teeth.
3. Not genuine or natural: an artificial smile
**********
Definition of ARTIFICIAL
1:humanly contrived often on a natural model : man-made <an artificial limb> <artificial diamonds>

2a : having existence in legal, economic, or political theory
b : caused or produced by a human and especially social or political agency <an artificial price advantage> <artificial barriers of discrimination>
**********
(är't&#601;-f&#301;sh'&#601;l)
adj.

[*]Made by humans; produced rather than natural.
[*]Brought about or caused by sociopolitical or other human-generated forces or influences: set up artificial barriers against women and minorities; an artificial economic boom.

[*]Made in imitation of something natural: an artificial smile
***************
1
made or produced to copy something natural; not real
an artificial limb/flower/sweetener/fertilizer
artificial lighting/light
2
created by people; not happening naturally
A job interview is a very artificial situation.
the artificial barriers of race, class and gender
3
not what it appears to be
*********

From Lowel, the famous manufacturer of artificial lighting equipment's GLossary of Lighting Terms: Glossary of Lighting Terms

"Artificial Light
An ambiguous term that refers to light produced by electricity as opposed to a Natural source and to illumination introduced to record images. Depending upon how it is used, it looks either artificial or natural."

"Natural Light
Nature's illumination: daylight, even on interiors. The term implies that the source is not artificial."
**************

Come on people, quit being natural douchebags (as opposed to artifdical ones! lol)...Do youi fail to realize that the term "artificial light" has a long, long history in the field of photography? How is it that you fail to understand the century-old concept that light that is created by the hand of man is NOT NATURAL LIGHT, nor is it natural lighting? Light created by the DIRECT efforts of humankind has been referred to as "artificial light" for well over 100 years. Let's stop this stupid B.S.. It only makes you look like asses.

So, to those who say electronic flash is "natural light", please explain it in view of the above definitions. Is natural light the brief burst of photons emanating from a flash that was made of plastic and metal and glass components, assembled in a factory, shipped to the destination, and then fitted with batteries made in India, and triggered by the triggering circuit in a 2,000-part $2,699 d-slr camera....that is not "natural light"...seriously...that is ARTIFICIAL LIGHT.

Thank you Derrel for eloquently stating what I was attempting.

 

[davesnothere11]

*sigh* If you can manipulate light then you don't have to worry about "what would suit her best." If she was a knowledgeable photographer, she would have the tools to get the job done regardless...I never said anything about a studio did I?

You don't ever hear about a construction company not working to get the job done for the client because "the weather is too cold/hot/rainy, unless there is a reason. Now, if it's raining or something, I can understand a photographer being apprehensive, but cancelling because you don't have the knowledge of your craft to get the job done? Unacceptable.

Look at these two images:



The one of the top was created using sunlight, the one on the bottom was using a studio light. Can you guess the difference? I manipulated light in both photos. On the top, I diffused the light. That's it. On the bottom, I setup one light behind my subject and used several reflectors to bounce the light onto the front of them. Both simple, but both require photographic knowledge to pull off.

Yes.
There are many skills and a beginner needs to learn them all.


I gotta go back to work now.

 

[tirediron]

While I don't feel that the definitions Derrel has posted really support his position, I will define mine more clearly: As I have repeatedly stated, light is light is light. Granted the source or point of origin can be natural (the sun), or man-made (almost everything else), but the light that eminates from those sources is identical. Photographically speaking, we are concerned with two basic types of light, ambient and supplemental.

Ambient light is that which is present when we arrive on at the shoot, whether it is sunlight, (reflected or direct), light produced by electric bulbs of any sort, or even bio-luminesence. Supplemental light is that which we as photographers add to the scene to acheive the desired result.

The reason I harp on this point and make (according to Derrel) an ass of myself is because in 30+ years of photography, I have never found any difference in light regardless of the source. Many people seem to feel that there is some magical difference between light originating from the sun and that which comes from other sources.

I firmly believe that it is essential that photographers understand how to work with light regardless of source.

 

[Derrel]

I want to photograph lions and tigers in their natural environment--the San Diego zoo!


I want to photograph an elephant in its natural habitat--performing tricks in a three-ring circus tent!


I want to hunt trophy whitetail deer in their natural habitat--a game farm with enhanced mineral and salt blocks, corn- and rice-feeding stations, and a 17-foot high fence to keep the deer inside!


I love the dental veneers I spent $4,000 on--now I have a 100-percent natural smile with dazzlingly white teeth!


I was very pale last winter, so I went to a tanning salon and got a deep, dark, copper-colored natural tan--in just 10 minutes in the spray booth!


Yes, that actress has a huge bosom as the result of natural silicon implants.


I grew some AMAZINGLY big tomatoes last summer using natural chemical fertilizers made by Dow Chemical!

 

[tirediron]

I want to photograph lions and tigers in their natural environment--the San Diego zoo!

Watch your backgrounds, this can be tricky and really detract from the image

I want to photograph an elephant in its natural habitat--performing tricks in a three-ring circus tent!

Be careful, they may not allow "professional" cameras inside. Read the fine-print on your ticket first.

I want to hunt trophy whitetail deer in their natural habitat--a game farm with enhanced mineral and salt blocks, corn- and rice-feeding stations, and a 17-foot high fence to keep the deer inside!

Use a small-calibre rifle (say, .223) with light loads so that you don't send rounds outside the border of the preserve.

I love the dental veneers I spent $4,000 on--now I have a 100-percent natural smile with dazzlingly white teeth!

Good for you!

I was very pale last winter, so I went to a tanning salon and got a deep, dark, copper-colored natural tan--in just 10 minutes in the spray booth!

I hope that you checked that the chemicals they were using weren't on the 'Known carcinogens' list!

Yes, that actress has a huge bosom as the result of natural silicon implants.

Most men appreciate the wonders that modern medical science has brought about.

I grew some AMAZINGLY big tomatoes last summer using natural chemical fertilizers made by Dow Chemical!

The secret to good tomatoes is lots and lots of water. Really, they will grow in almost any soil conditions.

 

[LightSpeed]

This thread concerns only one.

Yet, the OP began this thread with an arguement between two light sources. The argument was a failure to begin with. As been mentioned, having the ability to choose between light sources IS THE BENEFIT. Knowing how to manipulate whichever light source is THE SKILLSET.

Actually , no, the OP didn't.
Is that what your reading comprehension skills have gathered from all of this?
I mean come on, really?

Let me see if I can change your mind by highlighting a few things in the original post.

So anywho, I red all thru that natural light phographer thread.
I Kinda said screw it and stayed out of it making maybe one comment , that is, to learn both.
But what I saw in there were people stuck on flash.
Like that's the only way.........and since this is a beginners forum, I thought I might add some input on that, if I may.

You see, once you start playing with flash, it's like real easy to get stuck on flash.
Even when the obvious is right in front of you.
I thought this may benefit the beginners who continue to hear all this stuff about, BUY A FLASH........YOU MUST HAVE A FLASH FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO!
Don't listen to all that crap. It's blatantly false.
There's a time to flash and a time not to flash.
Oh yeah......I almost forgot. When things are wet, and you're flashing, Look out!

And away we go. Obviously not the best image I've ever produced. It was one of those, " let me see if I can make this look real, in camera, with very little post processing" moments.
I'm never going to do anything with this image, I just wanted the practice.
In the rain. Oh yeah almost forgot. I don't have photoshop. I wish I did.

Natural light.

So from this we might gather, that I'm of the opinion that one should learn to use both means.
I'm also of the opinion that leaning to one side or the other, is really not all that beneficial to , say, a beginner learning to record light.
I also feel that when you count on one over the other, the time will come that you're not prepared for.......one or the other.

Additionally, two images were posted to show that I believe what I'm saying.
One taken under natural light without flash. The second taken with flash.
Many of you, who have chimed in, have basically said the same thing that I'm saying, only in different ways.

That pretty much obliterates your theory that the thread was started as an arguement between , light sources.
Not to be crude, but it is what it is. You're mistaken.
Why you felt you needed to add this, rubbish, is beyond me.
Almost as if you tried to expose something that was never there.

 

[Vtec44]

You should definitely diffuse the light source next time. The lighting looks harsh, hence, people mistaken it for flash...

Interesting concept.
I don't know if it gets any more diffused than cloudy/overcast and raining.
Maybe stick a softbox over the end of the lens? lol

It seems like the moisture on your subject was reflecting the light from the overcast sky. Although overcast, he light was strong enough to create a enough reflection from the water, which looks harsh on camera. You could have used a white soft diffuser over your subject.

 

[cgipson1]

You should definitely diffuse the light source next time. The lighting looks harsh, hence, people mistaken it for flash...

Interesting concept.
I don't know if it gets any more diffused than cloudy/overcast and raining.
Maybe stick a softbox over the end of the lens? lol

It seems like the moisture on your subject was reflecting the light from the overcast sky. Although overcast, he light was strong enough to create a enough reflection from the water, which looks harsh on camera. You could have used a white soft diffuser over your subject.

Hint hint: http://www.amazon.com/Lastolite-LL-...HDBC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329255543&sr=8-1 but then it would be modifed, "un-natural" light! (J/K)! Kind of of like those Natural / Unnatural Boobs that Derrel was talking about!

 

[LightSpeed]

You should definitely diffuse the light source next time. The lighting looks harsh, hence, people mistaken it for flash...

Interesting concept.
I don't know if it gets any more diffused than cloudy/overcast and raining.
Maybe stick a softbox over the end of the lens? lol

It seems like the moisture on your subject was reflecting the light from the overcast sky. Although overcast, he light was strong enough to create a enough reflection from the water, which looks harsh on camera. You could have used a white soft diffuser over your subject.

It appears that you may be referring to the small white markings on the twig that the little bud/nodes are growing from, that may appear to be blown out coming down the stem.
Those are not blown highlights, but rather, the natural coloration of the stem itself, as it DOES have these white markings along its length.

As to the exposure, it looks pretty darn good to me. So good in fact, that it has gone challenged to some small degree, in gentlemanly fashion, that the image was captured using flash.
In short there were those who couldn't tell the difference.
As well as those who were told the difference but still doubted it. Until data was shown.


See what I'm steppin in?

 

[kundalini]

So anywho, I red all thru that natural light phographer thread.
I Kinda said screw it and stayed out of it making maybe one comment , that is, to learn both.
But what I saw in there were people stuck on flash.
Like that's the only way.........and since this is a beginners forum, I thought I might add some input on that, if I may.

You see, once you start playing with flash, it's like real easy to get stuck on flash.
Even when the obvious is right in front of you.
I thought this may benefit the beginners who continue to hear all this stuff about, BUY A FLASH........YOU MUST HAVE A FLASH FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO!
Don't listen to all that crap. It's blatantly false.
There's a time to flash and a time not to flash.
Oh yeah......I almost forgot. When things are wet, and you're flashing, Look out!

And away we go. Obviously not the best image I've ever produced. It was one of those, " let me see if I can make this look real, in camera, with very little post processing" moments.
I'm never going to do anything with this image, I just wanted the practice.
In the rain. Oh yeah almost forgot. I don't have photoshop. I wish I did.

Natural light.



Moral of the story: Flash aint gonna get you a hot chick. And if you're a woman, It aint gonna get you a good looking , smart, handsome and funny fella like me.
I am LightSpeed. And I approve this message. LightSpeed be Dialed in baby........
MIRROR BREAK!

Sorry, I must have misinterpreted the bolded part. Or were you over-stretching?

 

[cgipson1]

See what I'm steppin in?

POO!

 

[LightSpeed]

So anywho, I red all thru that natural light phographer thread.
I Kinda said screw it and stayed out of it making maybe one comment , that is, to learn both.
But what I saw in there were people stuck on flash.
Like that's the only way.........and since this is a beginners forum, I thought I might add some input on that, if I may.

You see, once you start playing with flash, it's like real easy to get stuck on flash.
Even when the obvious is right in front of you.
I thought this may benefit the beginners who continue to hear all this stuff about, BUY A FLASH........YOU MUST HAVE A FLASH FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO!
Don't listen to all that crap. It's blatantly false.
There's a time to flash and a time not to flash.
Oh yeah......I almost forgot. When things are wet, and you're flashing, Look out!

And away we go. Obviously not the best image I've ever produced. It was one of those, " let me see if I can make this look real, in camera, with very little post processing" moments.
I'm never going to do anything with this image, I just wanted the practice.
In the rain. Oh yeah almost forgot. I don't have photoshop. I wish I did.

Natural light.



Moral of the story: Flash aint gonna get you a hot chick. And if you're a woman, It aint gonna get you a good looking , smart, handsome and funny fella like me.
I am LightSpeed. And I approve this message. LightSpeed be Dialed in baby........
MIRROR BREAK!

Sorry, I must have misinterpreted the bolded part. Or were you over-stretching?

Well, no.
It IS Blatantly false. You do NOT have to have a flash for EVERYTHING you do with a camera.
If you took that as trying to be argumentative, then I don't know quite what to say.
I could apologize, that is, if I knew what I were apologizing for.