Anyone from Utah?

[photogoddess]

Bah. This is useless. They're all criminals then. They deserve no respect? They deserve no rights? I don't care how big a group you're in when you SEE people with machine guns...you walk the other way.

You've heard the term "Guilt by association" haven't you? :roll:

 

[hobbes28]

It just reminds me of some training I went through before I was allowed to carry a firearm for a previous job. It's a simulation where you have to respond to actual police calls called "shoot, don't shoot." There is this call you respond to where shots have been fired near some railroad tracks. You show up and because of the situation, you have your gun drawn ready for action. You come out of a factory to the tracks and there is this young boy walking towards you. He sees you and heads your way. Since there have been shots fired, you draw down on the boy who continues to come toward you. You yell to stop a few times and he reaches behind his back to grab something from his pocket or waist. As soon as his hand clears his back, he is within twenty feet from you so your initial reaction is to drop him. This decision is based soley on the call and situation since he's still coming towards you. This simulation is based on a true police call and report. When the smoke clears, the boy was reaching for a card that informed people that he was deaf and needed to have written instructions. He wanted to let the police know so badly that he walked towards an officer waving a gun in his face and reached for something behind his back.

The moral of the story is that you can never tell who you're dealing with in any given situation so they just prepare for the worst and make sure to let all involved know they are in charge of the situation as to prevent a riot.

 

[bace]

You people seem to be missing the whole point. It's like you're all ignoring the facts just so you can feel good about condemning a hole genre of music. This music doesn't create or support gang wars. It doesn't talk about killing your neighbour with a pitchfork. It's just dance music. There's no political agenda. There's no cultural oppression being expressed. It's just dance music.

This was treated like a hostile take over of some kind of cult. If it was an illegal event it could've been stoped before hand. Why waste all the time and money to prove a point?

 

[bace]

They're not heavy metal crazy bastards.

QUOTE]

Been a metalhead for over 20 years and played the Toronto bar scene for around 15 of them . Im clean and love the music.
Problems like you have described have been in Toronto for years, even before I started playing clubs. I saw various "boozecans" busted for the same reason, and that was in the 80's. If you were there, you were just as guilty as the next person. That is the way the law would see it. I think the main concern with the police is saving a life. The drugs that are associated with anything, whether it is a concert, or a rave, somebody is selling something illegal that could eventually kill somebody. THey are only doing their jobs.

http://www.canoe.ca/Health0004/06_drugs.html An interesting article on raves and drugs.

Great article. And like I said, Toronto has advanced a few years ahead of most American states.

Laws were put in place to ban the use of large venue's. Which consequently stopped "raves". Now the music is played at large clubs and security is tight. Although drugs are still available, there is no chance of weapons or anything being involved. The clubs are held directly responsible for anything illegal that happens.

It's just another club night with a different kind of music.

 

[Alison]

And like I said, Toronto has advanced a few years ahead of most American states.

Then that explains it ALL. This happened in the US, not Toronto which obviously has a much better handle on this sort of thing. Perhaps you can come on down and teach the Utah police how it should be done

Bace, if you start a discussion on something certainly not everyone is going to agree. Saying things like:

You people seem to be missing the whole point, It's like you're all ignoring the facts just so you can feel good about condemning a hole genre of music

shows that you're not going to be happy until everyone changes their point of view to match yours. I think if you ready carefully you'll see you have some people that are in essence agreeing with what you're saying, while others have taken the time to thoughtfully point out their views as well. It's called a discussion, and I don't think anyone is condeming the style of music...the discussion focused on a police raid that you feel was unfair and others feel was justified. If you think all of the people are missing the point then just give up now because if after two pages we still can't understand what you're trying to tell us it's obvious that we never will

 

[Chase]

You people seem to be missing the whole point. It's like you're all ignoring the facts just so you can feel good about condemning a hole genre of music. This music doesn't create or support gang wars. It doesn't talk about killing your neighbour with a pitchfork. It's just dance music. There's no political agenda. There's no cultural oppression being expressed. It's just dance music.

This was treated like a hostile take over of some kind of cult. If it was an illegal event it could've been stoped before hand. Why waste all the time and money to prove a point?

I think you're missing some of the point as well, its not about the music. Its about the drugs and culture of the people that were at the event. Were the police just lucky to find any weapons or drugs or did they know what they were going to find? I doubt you could find one of these events that doesn't include a large amount of drug use, and when you combine that with what appears to be the promoters not obtaining the proper permits, why wouldn't the police go after the opportunity? If nothing illegal was going on, do you really think they would be breaking the event up just because of the style of music? Please...

 

[Chiller]

Im not condemning any music genre at all . I was in the metal scene for years. We were bashed all the time. We used to have our dressing room raided...just because of our band name. The police would always walk away scratching their heads, cause they would not find anything.
They way I see it, is that the police are doing their jobs. They found some illegal stuff...possible maybe even more, like guns. But they are only protecting themselves by using the force they felt nessecary to control the crowd.
If for some reason a bunch had come out of that rave, guns blasting, and there were say 4(just a number) cop cars, and innocent people got hurt or killed, it could have been a more serious issue. The police are only protecting themselves and the innocent people, who were only going there to have fun. Im sure this has happened in every music genre.
The way I see it, if you break the law, then the police have a right to bust ya.

And look at it this way. Our mayor, called the army for a snowstorm. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

[Chase]

Im sure this has happened in every music genre.

Very very true...we know it has happened with metal, we know what happens to raves, I'd love to hear some insider perspective on things that have happened in the hip hop scene as well.

 

[bace]

You don't get it.

I'm right.

You're all wrong!!! DAMNIT!

No but seriously. I know some people are going to disagree. I just hate it when they do.

It's cool though "Shoot first, ask questions later". Just gotta get used to that mentality I guess.

 

[Hertz van Rental]

I agree with you - some people are going to disagree.

 

[bace]

I agree with you - some people are going to disagree.

ZING!

 

[aprilraven]

thank you alison...and personally, been here, done this..as has most of the ones answering this thread...

i hate when people bunch others altogether as in " all of you"... i am a head banger, longer than you have been alive i would wager, base... and done more than you...lived thru more than you..and still dig metal, hard rock, soft stuff..etc..

when will you understand, its not the music...its the raves... its not new, no matter how much you youngin's like to think it... we did it in the day day.. it was called other stuff..but not new...guess what... it would be shut down then, too... if you resisted, stuff happened... and you knew if it was planned, the local cops knew about it too..the spur of the moment parties out in the woods or old warehouse, you could get away with it for a while....but as other people have mentioned, its life, and a group doing things that are illegal, get caught everytime...especially when your talking about raves...this doesnt take a brain surgeon...

and by the way, i am really getting sick of the america bashing....its getting old...
you dont hear any of us bashing canada, or ireland, or where ever others come from..and i think its because we understand, goverment and the people are seperate..and as an american, i dont lump everything together...i dont hold every single canadian responsible for something another canadian does...i really wish ya'll wouldn't either....

i personally dont like certain laws, or rules, but ya know, as the rolling stones said, you cant always get what you want...and as of this moment in my life, the way america is, with the national guard and the police, i'll take the rules that govern here..over any other place.....

 

[photogoddess]

I agree with you - some people are going to disagree.

Hertz - you're just agreeing to disagree.

 

[Hertz van Rental]

Hertz - you're just agreeing to disagree.

Now why would I do a thing like that?

 

[JonMikal]

Bah. This is useless. They're all criminals then. They deserve no respect? They deserve no rights? I don't care how big a group you're in when you SEE people with machine guns...you walk the other way.

ya know bace, since you've joined, i go from i don't like ya to i like ya then back again....it's a see-saw effect. sometimes, you know how to join in with the fun, then just when it's starting to work you do this stuff. it's like if we don't see things your way, you're gonna go off. WTH is that? what does that say to us? it's like posting a pic in critique and getting pissed off if we say something negatively. you're an extreme person...thats cool, but KNOW when to curb it a little. i've said this before...your images are wonderful...your personality doesn't match it...most of the time.