Critiques and comments

[Buckster]

How many of you agree with every critic and every critique of every movie, TV show or piece of music out there, even by those critics who are supposedly the "experts"? Not many, I'll bet.

That's because it's all just personal opinion, whether given by one with much experience or none at all, by "noob" or by "expert", whether they like it or not, whether they articulate long-winded explanations or not for why they like or dislike it, whether others find those explanations valid or not, whether others agree or disagree with them.

From my point of view, it goes in every direction, and it's all subjective. Even if something is deemed by the forum's "experts" as "too dark" or "too light" or "blown out" or "blocked up" or "too saturated" or "not saturated enough" or "(insert too X here)" or even "perfect in every detail" - it's still just their opinion, and others may agree or disagree with those personal opinions in whole or in part, based on their own personal opinions - just like we all do with the opinions on movies, TV shows and music that "expert" critics write about.

I read every comment and critique with the silent, "in my opinion" added onto the writer's words, because that's all it is, no matter how authoritative they come off as, or think they are, or that anyone else thinks they are.

That said, "Wow! I LOVE IT!!" is as valid a personal opinion as any, in my book.

 

[Overread]

How many of you agree with every critic and every critique of every movie, TV show or piece of music out there, even by those critics who are supposedly the "experts"? Not many, I'll bet.

That's because it's all just personal opinion, whether given by one with much experience or none at all, by "noob" or by "expert", whether they like it or not, whether they articulate long-winded explanations or not for why they like or dislike it, whether others find those explanations valid or not, whether others agree or disagree with them.

I'm going to disagree a bit.

Even if everything does just boil down to opinion there are identified patterns in how human opinion on artistic design and presentation is viewed and liked (and disliked). Much of this is documented in the concept of composition and more of this is written in artistic books - however it also applies fully to photography as well. The medium might have changed but the rules remain quite similar if not identical.

As such there is cause for there to be elements which are correct when critiqued in a photo. Now of course this assumes that the photographer and the critiqure are able to see the image with the same creative concept behind it; sometimes this is the case and the critique given is based around improving the image closer toward what the photographer wanted to create and express - sometimes though the photographer imposes more of their own personal creative desires over the other and the critique can become a bit more one sided.

Either way the key part is that effective discussion only occurs when the person giving the critique takes the time not just to point out the "flaws" but to give some explanation as to why they are flaws. Even if its only key words and concepts that the photographer can further research from. This key part of explanation if something that ideally should be given up front; but is also something that people have to learn to ask for if its not given up front.

 

[The_Traveler]

I'll never tell someone they have a great photo just to rub their belly.

I thank you for that, being very choosy about by whom my belly is manipulated.

I don't know where this comment fits in the discussion stream but ------

I try to give fairly dispassionate comments saying what I like and what keeps me from liking it more. Many people here, and it is easy to distinguish who, absolutely need comments that tie the viewer's response to some failing in the image. e.g. 'The light background really hurts because it pulls my eye from the main subject.'

There are others who don't need that level of comment but do perfectly well with just a 'very nice image.'

On the commenting side, giving a comment doesn't mean that you have to understand technical issues on correction but more important that you can be aware of and articulate your own responses to the image. e.g. I like the picture but that bright area keeps making me look there. or 'I'm not certain where you want me to look or why that spot is important.'

Critique is not finding technical flaws -because technical flaws neither make or break an image - but is an evaluation of why the image does or doesn't work for the viewer.

And if the viewer doesn't know or can't figure that out, that's a loud, clear signal to the viewer that they need to do some work in understanding the issues of what makes a picture terrible/ok/good/great.

 

[pixmedic]

I'll never tell someone they have a great photo just to rub their belly.

I thank you for that, being very choosy about by whom my belly is manipulated..

ill have to disagree with you on that one...a good belly rub is a good belly rub. i sure wont turn one down, im not picky.

 

[Buckster]

How many of you agree with every critic and every critique of every movie, TV show or piece of music out there, even by those critics who are supposedly the "experts"? Not many, I'll bet.

That's because it's all just personal opinion, whether given by one with much experience or none at all, by "noob" or by "expert", whether they like it or not, whether they articulate long-winded explanations or not for why they like or dislike it, whether others find those explanations valid or not, whether others agree or disagree with them.

I'm going to disagree a bit.

Even if everything does just boil down to opinion there are identified patterns in how human opinion on artistic design and presentation is viewed and liked (and disliked). Much of this is documented in the concept of composition and more of this is written in artistic books - however it also applies fully to photography as well.

The same is true for all art forms though, and "expert" critics in all those fields disagree with one another all the time, and the public disagrees with them like crazy, validating those art forms by buying the crap out of them because they truly love them, no matter what the "experts" say, no matter what the books full of information on what elements of the arts people like and why they like them say.

That's only possible because it's not objective science or math that has a single valid answer that can be proven, written in a book, and everyone is forced to agree with it. On the contrary, it's only possible because it really IS all subjective to each individual person's opinions; Based solely on what they like and dislike, are drawn to or not.

Surely there are pieces of art that "experts" and "the book" say you should like or even love because they meet "the criteria" - and yet you don't. And no doubt, the opposite is also true. That should be all the evidence you need to know that it's all subjective, not just the stuff you personally disagree with the "experts" on.

Well, I can't really speak for you though, obviously, but it's enough for me to recognize it in that way.

 

[oldhippy]

I agree with Buck. As I understand it. I like it, or don't get what this is, are also valid C&C. Quite often myself and i feel others, dont feel to be able to critique.
At the same time if a picture has a poaitive effect on me, I'll coutinue to say. good shot. But never say WTFWYT..just kiddin.. Ed

 

[runnah]

You all should be honored to get a "I like this photo" comment from me. That sort of high praise is rarely bestowed upon the lesser classes.

 

[The_Traveler]

As I understand it. I like it, or don't get what this is, are also valid C&C.

'I like it' and 'I don't get it' are fine but really are just the first halves of a comment and it is more helpful to the OP if you fill in the other half.

I like it (or don't like it) because blah, blah, blah blah

I don't get it because I can't figure out what I'm supposed to look at/ what you are trying to show me/ what is interesting about this image.

 

[The_Traveler]

The same is true for all art forms though, and "expert" critics in all those fields disagree with one another all the time, and the public disagrees with them like crazy, validating those art forms by buying the crap out of them because they truly love them, no matter what the "experts" say, no matter what the books full of information on what elements of the arts people like and why they like them say.

That's only possible because it's not objective science or math that has a single valid answer that can be proven, written in a book, and everyone is forced to agree with it. On the contrary, it's only possible because it really IS all subjective to each individual person's opinions; Based solely on what they like and dislike, are drawn to or not.

Surely there are pieces of art that "experts" and "the book" say you should like or even love because they meet "the criteria" - and yet you don't. And no doubt, the opposite is also true. That should be all the evidence you need to know that it's all subjective, not just the stuff you personally disagree with the "experts" on.

Well, I can't really speak for you though, obviously, but it's enough for me to recognize it in that way.

But we aren't giving expert opinion, valuing something against a firm standard.
What we are doing is telling someone how we respond to their image - and the point the OP is making is that there are better, more useful, more complete ways of helping the photographers than are often done.
Our opinions can range easily but the manner in which we give them should be chosen to give the photographer posting as much insight into what we are thinking as possible.

 

[Rick58]

There were recently two interior photo's of a tinsmith's hut. I didn't give a rat’s behind if they were technically correct. I simply enjoyed viewing them as a different culture and told the OP so.
Should I have saved my breath and enjoyed the photo’s, and not comment because I didn't leave a deep thought provoking critique?

 

[cgipson1]

The same is true for all art forms though, and "expert" critics in all those fields disagree with one another all the time, and the public disagrees with them like crazy, validating those art forms by buying the crap out of them because they truly love them, no matter what the "experts" say, no matter what the books full of information on what elements of the arts people like and why they like them say.

That's only possible because it's not objective science or math that has a single valid answer that can be proven, written in a book, and everyone is forced to agree with it. On the contrary, it's only possible because it really IS all subjective to each individual person's opinions; Based solely on what they like and dislike, are drawn to or not.

Surely there are pieces of art that "experts" and "the book" say you should like or even love because they meet "the criteria" - and yet you don't. And no doubt, the opposite is also true. That should be all the evidence you need to know that it's all subjective, not just the stuff you personally disagree with the "experts" on.

Well, I can't really speak for you though, obviously, but it's enough for me to recognize it in that way.

But we aren't giving expert opinion, valuing something against a firm standard.
What we are doing is telling someone how we respond to their image - and the point the OP is making is that there are better, more useful, more complete ways of helping the photographers than are often done.
Our opinions can range easily but the manner in which we give them should be chosen to give the photographer posting as much insight into what we are thinking as possible.

Agreed!

"I LIKE IT / DONT LIKE IT" does not help them to improve, it can even reinforce the current behavior / technique / or cause resentment!

"I LIKE / DONT LIKE IT BECAUSE ....." CAN help them improve, and will help them change the current behavior / technique!

 

[The_Traveler]

There were recently two interior photo's of a tinsmith's hut. I didn't give a rat’s behind if they were technically correct. I simply enjoyed viewing them as a different culture and told the OP so.
Should I have saved my breath and enjoyed the photo’s, and not comment because I didn't leave a deep thought provoking critique?

You could have said: 'I like these because I enjoy seeing different culture'
There is no deep technical issue that needs to be raised; all the should be done is tell the photographer why you like the picture so he/she can understand why you are saying what you are saying.
OTOH, you could also have enlarged on your comment by telling the photog where the picture could be better so that you could have enjoyed it more.

 

[cgipson1]

There were recently two interior photo's of a tinsmith's hut. I didn't give a rat’s behind if they were technically correct. I simply enjoyed viewing them as a different culture and told the OP so.
Should I have saved my breath and enjoyed the photo’s, and not comment because I didn't leave a deep thought provoking critique?

Depends... when a person (LEW in this case) is at a certain level of accomplishment, and not here to "LEARN THE BASICS", then the "Like" is probably adequate.

But if that individual IS here to learn... and needs HELP and GUIDANCE,how does just a "I like it" help them?

 

[pixmedic]

There were recently two interior photo's of a tinsmith's hut. I didn't give a rat’s behind if they were technically correct. I simply enjoyed viewing them as a different culture and told the OP so.
Should I have saved my breath and enjoyed the photo’s, and not comment because I didn't leave a deep thought provoking critique?

Depends... when a person (LEW in this case) is at a certain level of accomplishment, and not here to "LEARN THE BASICS", then the "Like" is probably adequate.

But if that individual IS here to learn... and needs HELP and GUIDANCE,how does just a "I like it" help them?

in that particular case then, it would be up to the OP to say whether or not they are looking for learning critique or not. we do have a "just for fun" section intended for people that just want to share a picture with no expectations of any C&C. im not sure how many members actually KNOW who is at what experience level. especially with the amount of new people. I think there's an equal issue in the way people receive C&C as much as there is an issue with the way people give it.

"proper" C&C is a debate as close to being solved as "lens filters for protection", "nikon -vs- canon", or "professional grade monitors"

 

[Rick58]

"proper" C&C is a debate as close to being solved as "lens filters for protection", "nikon -vs- canon", or "professional grade monitors"

Filters for protection: Yes
Nikon: Never learned how to spell that other "C" word
Off the rack HP monitor, yep, I can see my photos

Solved

C&C? I suppose it's what you want to get out of the hobby. I'm good with "Like" and "atta boy"