Critiques and comments

[cynicaster]

One can learn a lot form attempting to do C&C... but many people are intimidated by C&C especially in a group forum that will correct them when wrong. I also agree the "WOW's" and "I LIKE IT" on images that may not deserve it, are a bit annoying... as it can encourage someone to continue what they are doing wrong!

Unless the person leaving the comment is lying about what they think, I don't see what your point is.

We often see bad images praised by those who lack even basic knowledge.... and this encourages more of the same type of images. (kind of the reward / consequence thing). And then when someone more knowledgeable tries to correct the initial shooter, and show them a better way... they are blown off or ignored since so many people "liked" it! Hopefully you will agree that that is a "Point"!

The authorities are welcome to step in and explain why they think the noob compliments are wrong.

Ultimately, it's up to the person who took the photo to weigh the comments from all sources and decide what to take away from it.

 

[ronlane]

Unless the person leaving the comment is lying about what they think, I don't see what your point is.

We often see bad images praised by those who lack even basic knowledge.... and this encourages more of the same type of images. (kind of the reward / consequence thing). And then when someone more knowledgeable tries to correct the initial shooter, and show them a better way... they are blown off or ignored since so many people "liked" it! Hopefully you will agree that that is a "Point"!

The authorities are welcome to step in and explain why they think the noob compliments are wrong.

Ultimately, it's up to the person who took the photo to weigh the comments from all sources and decide what to take away from it.

That is true, ultimately it is up the the OP to decide, but if they are new to the forum and get 10 new people with WOW, AWESOME, Great shot, and the 2 more experienced members pointing out the out of focus and the wb is off and the skin tone is not right, who is that OP going to believe?

 

[Rick58]

I know this subject has come up in the past, and I know Lew has a particular dislike for one word appraisals, but I feel there is another side to this coin.

I'm a pretty simply person with pretty simple likes and dislikes. I may simply like a photo for what it is. I don't always need to know why. I would rather let the photographer know that I took the time to actually look at their work and enjoyed my visit, instead of moving on to the next thread with no comment whats so ever. Too many only comment on the exceptional.
Because of this, I'll continue to use my one word answers or simply click "like" if warranted. Like I said, at least the person will know I cared enough to look at the ordinary.
On the other hand, if there is something that jumps out at me, I always share my negative or positive thoughts.

 

[Designer]

Again, Designer, if the shot warrants it and the viewer is as well accomplished as yourself, then such a comment is fine. It is when the viewer makes such a comment to a poorly constructed image, I find I am disappointed in the response.

I think I have a realistic assessment of my own skills, both at photography and at criticism, so I rarely attempt to stretch the bounds of what I am comfortable with. Nevertheless, I recently made a somewhat negative comment regarding the quality of entries in a "mini competition" on another forum.

Most posters chose to challenge me instead of defining or defending the entrants' submissions.

It was as if nobody was willing to accept my opinion at face value.

So posted in the mini comp thread were ten images that collectively made me wonder why they were posted. Usually there is at least one that gets my vote, sometimes two or three, but in this one thread, none of the photographs tripped my trigger.

I don't think I'm unreasonable in my evaluations. For those who think I have been unreasonable, let me further defend my position by stating that occasionally I see photographs that must have been posted by a troll trying to discredit this forum and any poster who "likes" the photograph.

Your original post is what made me think of that. Thank you.

 

[cgipson1]

Unless the person leaving the comment is lying about what they think, I don't see what your point is.

We often see bad images praised by those who lack even basic knowledge.... and this encourages more of the same type of images. (kind of the reward / consequence thing). And then when someone more knowledgeable tries to correct the initial shooter, and show them a better way... they are blown off or ignored since so many people "liked" it! Hopefully you will agree that that is a "Point"!

The authorities are welcome to step in and explain why they think the noob compliments are wrong.

Ultimately, it's up to the person who took the photo to weigh the comments from all sources and decide what to take away from it.

(Authorities? lol! Did I hit a sensitive spot or something? )

I take it you feel like I am denigrating "Noobs"? I am not... I am showing cause and effect, usually involving those that lack enough knowledge to even attempt to make / evaluate the comments... on either side of the equation.

 

[ronlane]

I know this subject has come up in the past, and I know Lew has a particular dislike for one word appraisals, but I feel there is another side to this coin.

I'm a pretty simply person with pretty simple likes and dislikes. I may simply like a photo for what it is. I don't always need to know why. I would rather let the photographer know that I took the time to actually look at their work and enjoyed my visit, instead of moving on to the next thread with no comment whats so ever. Too many only comment on the exceptional.
Because of this, I'll continue to use my one word answers or simply click "like" if warranted. Like I said, at least the person will know I cared enough to look at the ordinary.
On the other hand, if there is something that jumps out at me, I always share my negative or positive thoughts.

But these likes you post are on pictures that are not bad or not great. They are just in the middle, which is another conversation. I don't think you like photos that have a lot of issues. (Correct me if I'm wrong there)

 

[imagemaker46]

Everyone has an opinion, some choose to express it in short terms, others tend to go off on long winded explanations. There is nothing wrong with either one. I see people giving out praise to images that really aren't very good, but they might be a picture of a cute kid and no one wants to offend. I have found that in some cases that if I point out what is wrong with an image I do get dumped on, especially from the ones that know I am a professional photographer. I don't compare the posted images I comment on to professionally shot images, unless they are shot by people claiming to be professional photographers when clearly the images aren't of a professional quality.

Sometimes I do just like a photo, and don't have anything to add other than "nice image or great image" Is it that important to explain why?

 

[manaheim]

Unless the person leaving the comment is lying about what they think, I don't see what your point is.

If I like a photo, I'll say so, regardless of whether it meets somebody else's arbitrarily defined standards of technical perfection. I guess I'm a rogue in this respect, in that I have no problem coming out and saying I think a photo is good even if I know that photo-forum dogma would dictate a less favourable opinion.

There is merit to the "say why you like the photo" thing, but what makes for a "good photo" is in the eye of the beholder.

This is one of the big challenges,

Whether or not you LIKE a photo is, indeed "in the eye of the beholder".

Whether or not it is a good... Or shall we say "well executed" photo... Is really not,

Unfortunately very few people understand it and often the most vehement protests against the notion are those who understand it the least.

 

[ceeboy14]

The authorities are welcome to step in and explain why they think the noob compliments are wrong.

I would never make the comment that a compliment is bad, but I will say that a compliment without basis is like telling Mrs. Lincoln her butt isn't too big. It serves no purpose for the OP who is either there for a great ego boost, or is there to learn. I always assume the latter unless otherwise proven wrong. Even if the comment simply stated, "I like it, but I am not sure why. Will someone else enlighten me to its merits," it would be a vast improvement over, "Great shot!!!" when indeed it is not a great shot.

 

[Overread]

Each person who replies to photos with a comment is generally speaking not held to any form of standard or expected level of reply. Furthermore the concept of quality and standards with regard to photography is down to each individual person.

As a result you get a variety of replies from a variety of sources, each one unique in its own way as to how the person has chosen to comment upon a persons photo. Some people come here just to be social, they are not really here to write 50 paragraph essays in photo analysis (they might or might not has the skill to do so) - they just want to socialise generally with other photographers. They might well leave a "nice photo" comment and that is the level at which they have chosen to take part in the forum.

Others might launch into a long and descriptive reply with full explanations as to their thoughts and pointing out sources of further info on critique etc...

And between the two are a mass of various levels of reply that can be given.

In the end each form is valid in its own way and each one is valid on the site. We don't enforce a level of quality or skill nor a style of reply. We leave it up to the community as a collective and as individuals to decide how they reply. The best way you can help improve the quality of replies is to both lead by example and to also start up initiatives and ways to encourage others to join in. If the membership itself sets a higher bar for the quality of replies you'll find that it will encourage others to do likewise. Of course on a site that gets a regular injection of new beginners there is always a ready pool of people who need helping and encouraging in this regard.

At the admin/mod level we try not to be too strict and to let the community structure itself - we certainly give help and do try our best to lead by example in the replies we give. But we don't enforce any kind of reply structure (indeed, sadly, in the past where stronger critique focused initiatives have been put into action they have sadly backfired significantly).

 

[tirediron]

Sometimes I do just like a photo, and don't have anything to add other than "nice image or great image" Is it that important to explain why?

This! I often provide lengthy and detailed critique when requested (and sometimes even when it's not), but often I see an image which I just like - there may be nothing particularily outstanding about the image, but for whatever reason, I like it. To me, that's a valid comment. On the other hand, a comment about NOT liking an image should be accompanied by an explanation.

 

[Rick58]

I know this subject has come up in the past, and I know Lew has a particular dislike for one word appraisals, but I feel there is another side to this coin.

I'm a pretty simply person with pretty simple likes and dislikes. I may simply like a photo for what it is. I don't always need to know why. I would rather let the photographer know that I took the time to actually look at their work and enjoyed my visit, instead of moving on to the next thread with no comment whats so ever. Too many only comment on the exceptional.
Because of this, I'll continue to use my one word answers or simply click "like" if warranted. Like I said, at least the person will know I cared enough to look at the ordinary.
On the other hand, if there is something that jumps out at me, I always share my negative or positive thoughts.

But these likes you post are on pictures that are not bad or not great. They are just in the middle, which is another conversation. I don't think you like photos that have a lot of issues. (Correct me if I'm wrong there)

You're abosolutely right. If a photo sucks, it sucks. I'll never tell someone they have a great photo just to rub their belly. That doesn't help them in any way, except maybe their ego.

 

[ceeboy14]

Everyone has an opinion, some choose to express it in short terms, others tend to go off on long winded explanations. There is nothing wrong with either one. I see people giving out praise to images that really aren't very good, but they might be a picture of a cute kid and no one wants to offend. I have found that in some cases that if I point out what is wrong with an image I do get dumped on, especially from the ones that know I am a professional photographer. I don't compare the posted images I comment on to professionally shot images, unless they are shot by people claiming to be professional photographers when clearly the images aren't of a professional quality.

Sometimes I do just like a photo, and don't have anything to add other than "nice image or great image" Is it that important to explain why?

To a fledgling photographer, I think it is exceptionally important. It doesn't have to be a dissertation on every merit, but perhaps a line or two. "I like this one. Good choice of shutter/aperture as it really enhances the detail. "This at least lets them know they are on the right track...and, if they have good sense, they will take a gander at your website and realize they are learning something from a pro.

 

[imagemaker46]

Everyone has an opinion, some choose to express it in short terms, others tend to go off on long winded explanations. There is nothing wrong with either one. I see people giving out praise to images that really aren't very good, but they might be a picture of a cute kid and no one wants to offend. I have found that in some cases that if I point out what is wrong with an image I do get dumped on, especially from the ones that know I am a professional photographer. I don't compare the posted images I comment on to professionally shot images, unless they are shot by people claiming to be professional photographers when clearly the images aren't of a professional quality.

Sometimes I do just like a photo, and don't have anything to add other than "nice image or great image" Is it that important to explain why?

To a fledgling photographer, I think it is exceptionally important. It doesn't have to be a dissertation on every merit, but perhaps a line or two. "I like this one. Good choice of shutter/aperture as it really enhances the detail. "This at least lets them know they are on the right track...and, if they have good sense, they will take a gander at your website and realize they are learning something from a pro.

Generally if the photo looks good, they have already figured how the camera works, although I do understand what you're saying. Positive reinforcement. As I have said to a few of the guys I play football with that generally screw up all the time. On the chance they do something right. "way not to screw up" that's positive reinforcement.

 

[Overread]

Everyone has an opinion, some choose to express it in short terms, others tend to go off on long winded explanations. There is nothing wrong with either one. I see people giving out praise to images that really aren't very good, but they might be a picture of a cute kid and no one wants to offend. I have found that in some cases that if I point out what is wrong with an image I do get dumped on, especially from the ones that know I am a professional photographer. I don't compare the posted images I comment on to professionally shot images, unless they are shot by people claiming to be professional photographers when clearly the images aren't of a professional quality.

Sometimes I do just like a photo, and don't have anything to add other than "nice image or great image" Is it that important to explain why?

To a fledgling photographer, I think it is exceptionally important. It doesn't have to be a dissertation on every merit, but perhaps a line or two. "I like this one. Good choice of shutter/aperture as it really enhances the detail. "This at least lets them know they are on the right track...and, if they have good sense, they will take a gander at your website and realize they are learning something from a pro.

I would also argue that sometimes the photographer needs to learn to ask for further clarification. Despite being a discussion forum many people don't approach it in the form of discussion and often just post photos - read the replies and then say nothing. Not engaging with the people commenting is a major mistake many new people to forum life can make as often many people who leave shorter replies are fully willing to spend time expanding upon their point. They just don't want to write 50 essays a day to express their view on photos - so they leave it up to the photographer to choose if they wish to ask for a more detailed reply.