The same is true for all art forms though, and "expert" critics in all those fields disagree with one another all the time, and the public disagrees with them like crazy, validating those art forms by buying the crap out of them because they truly love them, no matter what the "experts" say, no matter what the books full of information on what elements of the arts people like and why they like them say.
That's only possible because it's not objective science or math that has a single valid answer that can be proven, written in a book, and everyone is forced to agree with it. On the contrary, it's only possible because it really IS all subjective to each individual person's opinions; Based solely on what they like and dislike, are drawn to or not.
Surely there are pieces of art that "experts" and "the book" say you should like or even love because they meet "the criteria" - and yet you don't. And no doubt, the opposite is also true. That should be all the evidence you need to know that it's
all subjective, not just the stuff you personally disagree with the "experts" on.
Well, I can't really speak for you though, obviously, but it's enough for me to recognize it in that way.
But we aren't giving expert opinion, valuing something against a firm standard.
By "expert", I mean those who have extensive knowledge and experience with the subject, who appear to others and come off as, and are generally recognized as, persons with the level of knowledge and experience to speak with some measure of authority on the subject they are addressing. They have been referred to in this thread as "
someone more knowledgeable", "the authorities", "more experienced members", "a pro", "a person at a certain level of accomplishment" and of course every inference arrived at by understanding the implied opposite of "noob" and "those with less experience", etc.
Example: In case you hadn't noticed it, Charlie certainly sees you as an "expert". So much so that if you give a short, "I like it", that counts for something in his mind. But, he's argued, others who are less accomplished need to also say
WHY they like it.
What we are doing is telling someone how we respond to their image
That is to say, you are giving them your OPINION, based on your feelings, your experience and your knowledge of the subject. There is nothing in the universe however, that says that your particular feelings, experience and knowledge are the be-all, end-all, trumping any others that don't agree with you. Thus, the subjective nature of it all.
- and the point the OP is making is that there are better, more useful, more complete ways of helping the photographers than are often done.
My reading comprehension is actually quite good, and I get that. I also read the rest of the responses in the thread and am responding to some general conversation about it all.
The OP, and some others who've chimed in, seem to me to have gone beyond merely stating in a completely benign way that there are better ways to help someone, and crossed into "this irks me and I think it should somehow be stopped" territory on the subject of short comments that do not impart much beyond praise for given works. I am simply one of those in the thread who disagrees with that premise, and have tried to articulate my thoughts on it as part of the discussion. My feeling on the matter is that those short phrases are just fine, and have their place just as much as some long-winded diatribe of pixel-peeping and nit-picking by someone who thinks they've got all the answers.
Naturally, your mileage may vary.
Those of you on the other side seem to want to pretend that we all signed a contract when we joined the forum that says, "I agree that I am hereby
OBLIGATED to do all I can to help other photographers get better by giving a full, concise and complete critique by giving them
MY FULL UNMITIGATED OPINION anytime I dare to write anything about a photo I see on the site." It's not a new song around here. See: "The Pact"; Another version of it that went over like a lead balloon, even though some thought it was the greatest thing since somebody said, "what if we slice the bread before we sell it?"
Hey, if that's the way you feel and want to do that, have at it. But that doesn't obligate anyone else around here to do the same. When I feel like helping, chiming in, discussing or just one-word-praising something I see, that's what I'm going to do. And, hold onto your hat - I really, seriously, honestly don't care if you like it or not. Here's another shocker - I take every comment and critique on every one of my own photos with a huge grain of salt, whether it's praise or derision, short or long-winded - even if it comes from someone around here who comes off as an "expert" to themselves or others - 'cuz in reality, it's just opinions, don'cha know.
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the time and effort folks make to leave their thoughts, but it neither makes nor breaks my opinion of my own work when it's all said and done. On some few occasions, I get some new insight through that process, and may even incorporate a suggested change, but it's not the norm for me. I'm pretty happy with my own vision, whether anybody else likes it or not.
I can say the same for the comments made to others' posted work. It rarely influences the way I see the piece, no matter who posted the C&C.
But maybe that's just me...
Our opinions can range easily
Probably the major point of what I'm saying, and proof that it's all subjective so, short-quipped or long-winded, it's just an opinion in the end.
but the manner in which we give them should be chosen to give the photographer posting as much insight into what we are thinking as possible.
Again, none of us signed that imaginary contract you keep bringing up, so none of us are obligated to adhere to it. That's simply your opinion, shared by some but not by all, and you're welcome to it. My opinion is that each person should contribute just as much as they feel like, from nothing at all to book-length, and that it's no skin off anybody's nose, either way.
I think if you really believe what you're saying, you shouldn't skip over any posted images, but should do a full write-up on each, in order to best help those photographers.
In the end, it appears from your statements above that you agree with me that they're just opinions, and that's kind of the bottom line with me. Anything you have to say about any piece you're looking at is nothing more than a subjective opinion based on the way you see it, so it has very little weight in point of fact. Anyone at all could disagree with your assessment, see it in completely the opposite way, and be just as valid in their opinion. You can say, "it's too dark" and the next person can say, "it's perfect" or "it's not dark enough". There's no "right" to any of them, other than to say that each person's statement is "right" to the person that made it.
Only after my own analysis would I read the other comments. The more times I was in the concensus, the more confidence I had to actually type my comments for C&C. The kick in the pants was when some of those same members that I held to high regard began to comment on my comments in a positive manner, that I felt that I actually have learned a few things about photography.
