Curious comment from police officer at accident scene.

[HughGuessWho]

I was in law enforcement myself, until I had to give it up for medical reasons. I loved my job, but I can also say that there were a few things I despised about it, and that was working with other officers that routinely stepped across the line and had the “I am a law enforcement officer and you’re not” mentality. I witnessed, many times, other officers creating their own “laws”, violating citizens’ rights and breaking the law themselves, often times when their actions were more serious than their suspects, while other officers watch and condone the actions. I am in no way suggesting that this officer is even remotely close to that type, but that type DOES exist.

However, to the finally comment above, it was stated that “the teenager stopped in the middle of the street, blocking traffic, to take pictures”. Where I come from, blocking traffic is an offense warranting arrest. If I were in that situation, I would have charged the offender with Blocking Traffic, rather than making an ordeal out of him taking my picture. But, of course, I have had my picture taken hundreds of times at accident scenes and the like, but never once did I feel harassed or threatened.

Lastly, I am in no way slamming this or any officer; it is a rough and stressful job, but one cannot say that because a person wears a badge, it doesn’t mean they are a saint, because it just isn’t case.

The moral of my long post is; just because a law enforcement office does something, it doesn’t mean it’s right.

 

[DScience]

It's nice to have another LEO (please forgive the abbreviation?) on the forum. I think gryphonslair is one as well?

To our new LEO... if we get snarky with you, just remind us that we have very few of you here and how much it would suck if you weren't around.

I'm not saying this to kiss ass... I don't kiss ass... I mean it. As photographers we grapple with issues of law periodically, and we see and hear way too many reports of LEOs muscling this or that photographer into deleting their photos, oftentimes claiming that it's this or that law (which usually proves out to be pretty much bull, or we all ASSUME it to be bull.) But very few of us are attorneys, so we're not sure if we're right. The more people we have around here who actually know how this stuff works, the better. Amazing to have people from the actual STATE IN QUESTION to be able to weigh in on it, too.

As someone else said, it's nice to have an informed perspective. Thanks for posting.

Lol LEOs are not attorneys either, and don't know all the photography laws!

 

[o hey tyler]

Looks like there in nothing in TPC 22.11 about taking photographs, even at close range.

It appears the police officer overstepped the bounds of that statute in the situation with the teenager.

If your refering to the teenager that was photographing billross77 I would argue that the quoted statute may not apply, but, pulling off the road at a traffic stop to photograph the officer was in itself creating a dangerous situation for the officer and the jerk taking the photographs. I'm betting the teen broke several laws by doing his dumb stunt. He is lucky he wasn't cuffed and hauled in for interfering with the officer doing his duty.

If he's on public property taking the photographs of the crime scene, there's not much they can do.

Furthermore, BillRoss stated that it was a traffic stop which doesn't to me sound like anything that they should have an issue with being photographed. Traffic stops are considered "routine," as you hear of "routine traffic stop" quite regularly. Unless the officer was improperly citing other statutes towards the pulled over citizen, he should have no issue. He didn't state that the person taking photos was interfering. He said he was taking photos of the traffic stop.

Regardless, he had no right to have them delete the photos.

 

[orljustin]

Exactly. He had no right trying to make him delete the images 'to save him trouble'. What trouble are you expecting? If there is an issue blocking traffic, then that is the issue. Otherwise, using your 'power' to stop someone because it bugs you they're taking a picture that otherwise isn't illegal, is wrong.

 

[ecphoto]

I'm a public safety officer at a hospital. We fall under the umbrella of H.I.P.A.A which allows us to stop people from taking pictures on our grounds due patient privacy per the Federal privacy act(HIPAA). We are a community medical center, since we aren't on public property we do not have to put up with problem people.
If someone can't follow a simple directive they can leave, either by choice or by force. You'd be surprised how often we need to have people arrested. Police out in the field don't have the luxory of making people leave at will.

As a personal note I hate it when people blather on and on about their "rights". You can enjoy your rights all you want, but when exercising them encroaches on someone else's rights; we have a problem.

If someone does not want to be photographed you should respect that!

In other countries photographers are often murdered for taking photos of people that don't want to be photographed. We are fortunate here in the U.S. that we have as many protections as we do.

 

[DiskoJoe]

A friend was just involved in a rear-end collision outside of Washington, DC. The wreck occurred on a "federal" highway and therefore state police were somehow involved. :scratch: While she was waiting for the ambulance to arrive, she called me (an attorney) for quick advice. I told her to take photos of the accident scene.

She did. The cop on the scene told her because it was a federal highway it was a "federal crime scene" and therefore no photos were allowed. He told her to delete them from her iPhone. I told her hell no, do NOT delete them. It was her 1 chance to get images of the accident for insurance and other purposes.

WTF is up with that? Has anybody ever heard such nonsense? I haven't. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've never heard of such a thing.

For the record, she did not delete them! Winning! :smileys:

Your the lawyer. You tell us. I would actually like to know if what the police stated to her was actually correct. And if it was my next question would be, " so when is the police photographer coming to take pictures of the crime scene?"

 

[HughGuessWho]

I'm a public safety officer at a hospital. We fall under the umbrella of H.I.P.A.A which allows us to stop people from taking pictures on our grounds due patient privacy per the Federal privacy act(HIPAA). We are a community medical center, since we aren't on public property we do not have to put up with problem people.
If someone can't follow a simple directive they can leave, either by choice or by force. You'd be surprised how often we need to have people arrested. Police out in the field don't have the luxory of making people leave at will.

As a personal note I hate it when people blather on and on about their "rights". You can enjoy your rights all you want, but when exercising them encroaches on someone else's rights; we have a problem.

If someone does not want to be photographed you should respect that!

In other countries photographers are often murdered for taking photos of people that don't want to be photographed. We are fortunate here in the U.S. that we have as many protections as we do.

Some countries will cut your hand off for stealing and stone you to death for adultery and put you in prison for disagreeing with the government, but this conversation is about the United States. We are better than that. When the day comes that the public cannot see or photography law enforcement in the “act of duty”, then we are in a world of hurt. Police officers are recorded violating citizens civil rights on a near daily basis. I could imagine what it would be like if no one could record or document that. I wouldnt want to live in that world.

 

[analog.universe]

Looks like there in nothing in TPC 22.11 about taking photographs, even at close range.

It appears the police officer overstepped the bounds of that statute in the situation with the teenager.

If your refering to the teenager that was photographing billross77 I would argue that the quoted statute may not apply, but, pulling off the road at a traffic stop to photograph the officer was in itself creating a dangerous situation for the officer and the jerk taking the photographs. I'm betting the teen broke several laws by doing his dumb stunt. He is lucky he wasn't cuffed and hauled in for interfering with the officer doing his duty.

If he's on public property taking the photographs of the crime scene, there's not much they can do.

Furthermore, BillRoss stated that it was a traffic stop which doesn't to me sound like anything that they should have an issue with being photographed. Traffic stops are considered "routine," as you hear of "routine traffic stop" quite regularly. Unless the officer was improperly citing other statutes towards the pulled over citizen, he should have no issue. He didn't state that the person taking photos was interfering. He said he was taking photos of the traffic stop.

Regardless, he had no right to have them delete the photos.

This post just needed to appear again, so there it is.

Billross was overstepping. Serve and protect the citizens, not your reputation or your ego.

I grew up in New York, and with the recent political climate, NYPD officers have been preventing photography, smashing equipment, and arresting journalists because they don't want evidence of their actions. The videos on Youtube of police officers violently abusing law abiding citizens are the reason we need to keep filming, and the reason they keep trying to prevent us.

If you're going to be a cop, you have a responsibility to not be a fascist, and the citizens have a responsibility to call you out on it if you are.

 

[ecphoto]

I'm a public safety officer at a hospital. We fall under the umbrella of H.I.P.A.A which allows us to stop people from taking pictures on our grounds due patient privacy per the Federal privacy act(HIPAA). We are a community medical center, since we aren't on public property we do not have to put up with problem people.
If someone can't follow a simple directive they can leave, either by choice or by force. You'd be surprised how often we need to have people arrested. Police out in the field don't have the luxory of making people leave at will.

As a personal note I hate it when people blather on and on about their "rights". You can enjoy your rights all you want, but when exercising them encroaches on someone else's rights; we have a problem.

If someone does not want to be photographed you should respect that!

In other countries photographers are often murdered for taking photos of people that don't want to be photographed. We are fortunate here in the U.S. that we have as many protections as we do.

Some countries will cut your hand off for stealing and stone you to death for adultery and put you in prison for disagreeing with the government, but this conversation is about the United States. We are better than that. When the day comes that the public cannot see or photography law enforcement in the “act of duty”, then we are in a world of hurt. Police officers are recorded violating citizens civil rights on a near daily basis. I could imagine what it would be like if no one could record or document that. I wouldnt want to live in that world.

I'll agree with your view point when people start recording things in context. A 20 second clip of a 20 minute altercation does absolutely no one justice. People want to record everything, but only show what works for them. How is that any better?

 

[12sndsgood]

Reality is everyone makes mistakes wether your a cop or a baker.

 

[analog.universe]

Reality is everyone makes mistakes wether your a cop or a baker.

When bakers make mistakes though, they don't sacrifice the human rights, freedom, livelihood, personal privacy, and ultimate security of the people who hired them. A burnt Danish is a different story than bodily harm, confiscated property, and time spent in jail.

 

[jwbryson1]

Your the lawyer. You tell us. I would actually like to know if what the police stated to her was actually correct. And if it was my next question would be, " so when is the police photographer coming to take pictures of the crime scene?"

I'm a TAX attorney :thumbsup: , so I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head, but maybe I can do some digging if I get some free time.

 

[12sndsgood]

Reality is everyone makes mistakes wether your a cop or a baker.

When bakers make mistakes though, they don't sacrifice the human rights, freedom, livelihood, personal privacy, and ultimate security of the people who hired them. A burnt Danish is a different story than bodily harm, confiscated property, and time spent in jail.

mistakenly spill something in the batter that kills someone, deny someone service because you are uncomfortable with the person. mistakes are mistakes wether they are small or large. people make mistakes. if you want police officers who never make mistakes your going to be waiting forever.

 

[analog.universe]

Reality is everyone makes mistakes wether your a cop or a baker.

When bakers make mistakes though, they don't sacrifice the human rights, freedom, livelihood, personal privacy, and ultimate security of the people who hired them. A burnt Danish is a different story than bodily harm, confiscated property, and time spent in jail.

mistakenly spill something in the batter that kills someone, deny someone service because you are uncomfortable with the person. mistakes are mistakes wether they are small or large. people make mistakes. if you want police officers who never make mistakes your going to be waiting forever.

My point is simply, that if you agree to become law enforcement, you're taking on a big responsibility. You take the oath to protect the people etc... The nature of the job is that you're held to a higher standard. It's absolutely unacceptable for officers to illegally prevent photography and delete photographs in order to get away with making mistakes.

I'd bet that in large scale operations, the bakers are being filmed by management...

 

[12sndsgood]

well head on down to your library or courthouse and ask for every law a state has and let me know if your able to remember every single law and how every single law should be applied. There is just too many specific laws to know exactly how laws are worded and meant to be carried out. people are going to make mistakes wether you hold them up on a pedestal or not. and as with anyting in this world today. two people can look at the same thing and come up with a diffrent outcome.