Curious comment from police officer at accident scene.

jwbryson1 · Apr 19, 2012

A friend was just involved in a rear-end collision outside of Washington, DC. The wreck occurred on a "federal" highway and therefore state police were somehow involved. :scratch: While she was waiting for the ambulance to arrive, she called me (an attorney) for quick advice. I told her to take photos of the accident scene.

She did. The cop on the scene told her because it was a federal highway it was a "federal crime scene" and therefore no photos were allowed. He told her to delete them from her iPhone. I told her hell no, do NOT delete them. It was her 1 chance to get images of the accident for insurance and other purposes.

WTF is up with that? Has anybody ever heard such nonsense? I haven't. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've never heard of such a thing.

For the record, she did not delete them! Winning! :smileys:

tirediron · Apr 19, 2012

I have no idea about the technical aspects of US law as they would apply to this, but (1) I wouldn't think a traffic accident would normally be termed a "crime scene" and (2) it sounds to me very much like the constable knew less about the relevant laws than I do! :lol:

STM · Apr 19, 2012

Well, I am not a lawyer, and I did not stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but something sounds mighty fishy about that. And I think it somewhat presumptious to call it a "crime scene". Just wondering, was this his first day on the job?

Big Mike · Apr 19, 2012

I'm not familiar with the laws either, but *I think* that even if he (the office) was correct that she was not allowed to take photos (I doubt he was), I don't think he can force anyone to delete the photos that had already been taken.

CCericola · Apr 19, 2012

Well since she still has the photos and she did not delete them and I assume she is not sitting in a jail cell, the officer was wrong. Police are still human, They can make mistakes and even get wrong information. And yes, interstates are state police's jurishdiction.

billross77 · Apr 19, 2012

I am a Police Officer (yes, I've been reading these forums for a while, but just signed up to post this). Although here in the Dallas/Ft Worth area we have no federal jurisdictions, I can tell you that in most cases an accident would be a crime scene until we can figure out if any criminal event has taken place. I have only had one incident to tell someone to delete a photo from their phone, and it was a teenager who was standing next to a traffic stop taking pictures of me. In Texas this is considered harassment of a public servant, and is a crime. I told him to delete it and we would forget it happened(I'd rather teach someone something than take them to jail for something stupid). I am assuming this was the logic the DC officer was using as well.

Big Mike · Apr 19, 2012

I agree that taking photos of an officer could be considered harassment, but do you (they) have the right to tell someone to delete the photo? Wouldn't you need a warrant for that?

Of course, neither you or they want to go through the hassle of being arrested and having to request a warrant (doubtful to be granted IMO)....so it's easier all around if the person just stops what they are doing.

billross77 · Apr 19, 2012

Yes a warrant is needed. I just shoot people straight and give them the choice to delete it voluntarily to save us both the hassle. I don't like bullying people. It gives the entire police world a bad name, and that's not what we are here for.

jwbryson1 · Apr 19, 2012

billross77 said:
I am a Police Officer (yes, I've been reading these forums for a while, but just signed up to post this). Although here in the Dallas/Ft Worth area we have no federal jurisdictions, I can tell you that in most cases an accident would be a crime scene until we can figure out if any criminal event has taken place. I have only had one incident to tell someone to delete a photo from their phone, and it was a teenager who was standing next to a traffic stop taking pictures of me. In Texas this is considered harassment of a public servant, and is a crime. I told him to delete it and we would forget it happened(I'd rather teach someone something than take them to jail for something stupid). I am assuming this was the logic the DC officer was using as well.

Bill, thanks for the post. Can you cite me the law in Texas (Statute citation) that says this is a crime? I'm an attorney from Texas but I now live in the DC Metro area. I have never heard this before.

In my friend's case, she was stopped and was hit from behind so she was not at fault.

Netskimmer · Apr 19, 2012

Unless the person taking the pic is in your face or something, how is taking a picture of a cop harassment? It's not harassment to take a picture of a civilian.

HughGuessWho · Apr 19, 2012

billross77 said:
... I just shoot people straight ...

I hope that wasn't a Freudian Slip. :x

jwbryson1 · Apr 19, 2012

Netskimmer said:
Unless the person taking the pic is in your face or something, how is taking a picture of a cop harassment? It's not harassment to take a picture of a civilian.

I have to agree. I'm not sure I buy this...but I'd like to see the language of the statute. If the photographer was somehow interfering with the officer's work or otherwise blocking him or getting in his way, perhaps that could be harassment. But what if the photographer is across the street with a zoom lens? How is that harassment? I don't understand that at all.

Jeff92 · Apr 19, 2012

billross77 said:
I am a Police Officer (yes, I've been reading these forums for a while, but just signed up to post this). Although here in the Dallas/Ft Worth area we have no federal jurisdictions, I can tell you that in most cases an accident would be a crime scene until we can figure out if any criminal event has taken place. I have only had one incident to tell someone to delete a photo from their phone, and it was a teenager who was standing next to a traffic stop taking pictures of me. In Texas this is considered harassment of a public servant, and is a crime. I told him to delete it and we would forget it happened(I'd rather teach someone something than take them to jail for something stupid). I am assuming this was the logic the DC officer was using as well.

Your telling me you can't take a picture of a police officer in Texas in the public? Sounds like a load of crap to me and also a constitutional violation. Either way I would lock my phone and tell the officer that we could handle it later. Good luck solving android pattern lock, plus every time they fail I will have a nice candid shot of the person trying to unlock it

Big Mike · Apr 19, 2012

This can be a very contentious issue. Lets all try to keep this on-topic and civil please. This is a great opportunity here, we have both a Lawyer and a police officer to offer advice and ask questions etc. In other words, don't make me have to lock this thread.

(to me), I would think that any law saying that people are harassing officers by taking photos of them....is more about possible liability issues vs the job that we ask them to do. Nobody wants to have every little thing they do, photographed or videoed. Nobody is perfect and we can't expect them to be without fault all the time. If police officers have to be even more aware of this, at all times, it will make their job much harder to do. Of course, in a perfect world, if they don't do anything wrong, then being constantly photographed wouldn't be an issue...

But on the other side of it (to me) is that telling people they can't take photos, in public, would go against their constitutional rights & freedoms.

billross77 · Apr 19, 2012

The code, which was recently changed is PC 22.11. I am trying to find the current wording to post on here. If you look it up right now it only contains causing bodily fluid to come in contact with a public servant. They recent update builds off the elements of with intent to cause alarm, or harass. Ill post it up, once I get the revised version.

Yes, you are correct, you would have to be up in my face with the intent of harassing me. Simply taking a picture is not a crime at all. As I said, I've only dealt with this once and it was a teenager who stopped his car while I was on the side of the road and walked up to me taking pictures on his phone.

You have to understand (some of you will) some people dislike our presence until they need us.

Sorry guys...didn't mean to turn my first post in a photo forum about my job.