If You Have Nothing to Say, Don't Say Anything at All

[ShooterJ]

Well, going back to time in the military, no need for a pillow.

"Don't draw enemy fire, that's what your teammates are for"

EDIT: Which of kind of went hand in hand with "Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than you."

 

[Derrel]

The idea that offering a C&C on a TPF photo post will "improve one's critical thinking skills" is patently ridiculous. I mean, come on man...that's just a ridiculous premise.

Negative one-liners are not helpful. But I think there's a place for brief, positive notes. If a photo has received a large number of views, but zero replies, I will often leave a brief, positive note, so as to let people know, "Hey, I saw your photo and liked it enough to leave a note." Now, since when I do that my "dialogue" is brief, will such a short message then reduce my critical thinking abilities because it was not a long, expansive, verbose, pretentious C&C??? lol

There are MANY reasons why brief, positive notes are more than adequate, and are perfectly appropriate. Again, you telling people to basically, as Buckster so eloquently put it "Shut the f**k up," unless they leave a long-winded C&C is...as you called it, "kind of a rant." And as I stated earlier, "Nice rant! Atta boy!"

 

[unpopular]

The idea that offering a C&C on a TPF photo post will "improve one's critical thinking skills" is patently ridiculous. I mean, come on man...that's just a ridiculous premise.

My OP discussed learning how to offer a critique before doing so, not that a TPF post will "improve one's critical thinking skills".

But I think there's a place for brief, positive notes.

I didn't really say that there wasn't, only that people ought to consider saying more than just a one liner.

will such a short message then reduce my critical thinking abilities because it was not a long, expansive, verbose, pretentious C&C???

I didn't say anything about reduction.

There are MANY reasons why brief, positive notes are more than adequate, and are perfectly appropriate. Again, you telling people to basically, as Buckster so eloquently put it "Shut the f**k up," unless they leave a long-winded C&C is...as you called it, "kind of a rant." And as I stated earlier, "Nice rant! Atta boy!"

And I also said nothing about "long-winded, [pretentious] C&C", either. Only something more than essentially "this sucks", I mean, if you don't know why it sucks then how can you be so certain that it does?

 

[pixmedic]

The idea that offering a C&C on a TPF photo post will "improve one's critical thinking skills" is patently ridiculous. I mean, come on man...that's just a ridiculous premise.

Negative one-liners are not helpful. But I think there's a place for brief, positive notes. If a photo has received a large number of views, but zero replies, I will often leave a brief, positive note, so as to let people know, "Hey, I saw your photo and liked it enough to leave a note." Now, since when I do that my "dialogue" is brief, will such a short message then reduce my critical thinking abilities because it was not a long, expansive, verbose, pretentious C&C??? lol

There are MANY reasons why brief, positive notes are more than adequate, and are perfectly appropriate. Again, you telling people to basically, as Buckster so eloquently put it "Shut the f**k up," unless they leave a long-winded C&C is...as you called it, "kind of a rant." And as I stated earlier, "Nice rant! Atta boy!"

I do agree that brief positive posts can be quite adequate as a response.
why? well, as far as I see it, I might look at a photo and like it, but maybe I cant really find anything to nitpick about, or maybe it is outside my range of technical or artistic knowledge, but i want to leave a comment anyway just to show i was there and liked the shot. As far as I can tell, there is nothing wrong with just acknowledging the fact that I have enjoyed viewing the photo, but cannot offer any deeper critique due to any of the reasons mentioned above.
I dont think there is a real "need" to validate positive reinforcement, although theres nothing wrong with stating WHY you liked the photo as this gives the OP a little more insight as to what they may have done right, or where their strongest points are on a photo.
negative reinforcement however, especially in the form of simple one liners like "bin this one", offers the OP little to no insight, and without instructions as to correcting their mistakes, there is little chance of the OP learning anything from the critique. whats the point of posting any critique if not for the OP to learn from it?

 

[unpopular]

That is your opinion and you're welcome to it. A critique is not validated or invalidated based on the number of words or expansion of thought, nor on the experience or verbal abilities of the person making the critique. It is, in its simplest form, an expressed opinion, and that can be done in a few words.

I'm not even having this discussion, Buckster.

 

[Buckster]

whats the point of posting any critique if not for the OP to learn from it?

To let them know how the piece makes you feel, if only at a base level; To give them your initial impression. There is something to be learned from that, even if it's not a step by step guide to how to correct it.

If a chef serves me a dish and I don't like the way it tastes, but can't tell the chef how to fix it so that it would taste good to me, does that make my expression that it's not for me less valid?

 

[Buckster]

That is your opinion and you're welcome to it. A critique is not validated or invalidated based on the number of words or expansion of thought, nor on the experience or verbal abilities of the person making the critique. It is, in its simplest form, an expressed opinion, and that can be done in a few words.

I'm not even having this discussion, Buckster.

I'm sorry, but could you expand on this thought? I find it to be much too lacking in information to help me. Your posts should teach me how to do better, or you should just shut up and not respond, right?

 

[Derrel]

whats the point of posting any critique if not for the OP to learn from it?

To let them know how the piece makes you feel, if only at a base level; To give them your initial impression. There is something to be learned from that, even if it's not a step by step guide to how to correct it.

If a chef serves me a dish and I don't like the way it tastes, but can't tell the chef how to fix it so that it would taste good to me, does that make my expression that it's not for me less valid?

Uh-oh...Buckster, you're applying logical thought to a rant-based thread's premise... Cue the voice-over guy saying, "Danger, Buck-robinson, danger!" lol

 

[unpopular]

I didn't say that you had to explain how to fix it. Not at all.

Let's say someone doesn't like an image because the WB is off. All that someone with limited experience has to say is "I don't like how the skin looks weird". Sure, technically a "one liner" but also not what I was referring to.

Let's say someone doesn't understand the intent, all that someone has to do is say "I am not sure I understand this, mind providing some background?"

I mean seriously, Buckster. You have these preconceived ideas about me from some post I made at some point in the past which you're now using to filter everything I write as some kind of elitist snob. While there may be some validity to this in some regard to my attitudes, it's mostly toward the commercial photography establishment - most certainly not toward people who lack experience!

 

[EIngerson]

I don't get it.

 

[kathyt]

There are times when I just want to say WOW to an image and that's it. Sometimes saying what comes to your mind first is beneficial to the photographer. I don't like rules.

 

[kathyt]

I don't get it.

What was the question again? I forgot.

 

[ShooterJ]

I don't get it.

Nice shot.. :lmao:

 

[nycphotography]

LOL @ the crop!
Portrait orientation!
Bad lighting!
terrible Posing!
just a snapshot!
WB is off!
Color is bad!
Read a book on photography!
Bin that one!
Etc Etc...

none of those "critiques" offer any insight whatsoever to help the OP with their picture. even if those issues are obvious to the person giving the C&C, if they were so obvious to the OP, they would have posted the picture with those corrections already done.
IE: it does precious little good to scream TERRIBLE WB at the OP if the OP has no idea how to fix the WB, or even what to look for in proper WB.
If you are giving C&C, and you feel yourself knowledgeable enough to critique a photo and point out what is wrong with it....then you should, in fact, be knowledgeable enough to offer some suggestions as to how the OP can correct the issues you found.
this is of course, just how I personally feel about people posting critique citing faults in a picture without offering assistance in the fixing of it.

Exactly. perhaps this thread can serve as a reference and other members should respond to such posts with:

Terrible C&C. Try Harder. For more information click here.

 

[unpopular]

That is your opinion and you're welcome to it. A critique is not validated or invalidated based on the number of words or expansion of thought, nor on the experience or verbal abilities of the person making the critique. It is, in its simplest form, an expressed opinion, and that can be done in a few words.

I'm not even having this discussion, Buckster.

I'm sorry, but could you expand on this thought? I find it to be much too lacking in information to help me. Your posts should teach me how to do better, or you should just shut up and not respond, right?

I have no idea what your background is, but your definition of "critique" is completely inaccurate.

From Wikipedia:

Critique is an accepted and established process of orderly scholarly and public debate. In the fine arts and the humanities, and especially in writing, critique is influenced by the scientific method of analysis. Critique is based upon an informed opinion, and never upon personal opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critique

I don't agree with the article's limited definition of "informed opinion", but I do agree with the rest. Critique is about analysis, not personal knee jerk opinions. I earned that "D-" on my first critique paper in Art Theory, and I had learned enough from it to know that "send it to the trash bin" isn't a critique.

As for anyone who posts for any other reason than critique, I couldn't care less about them.