I'm a newbie: First C&C Post

[vtf]

I honestly have NO idea what my value will be. I think about it all the time and I try to calculate different things in my head, and I've even set pricing and told myself I was going to start charging, but then I go online and find a zillion other photographers that are better than I am, and I change my mind, haha! I know that I'm a terrible business person. I'd rather give away everything for free or next to nothing, even though I know that logically that business model doesn't work, lol! I definitely would like to see your tutorial, though. I wish I could upload my portfolio to some sort of photography decoding program (yes, I know these don't exist, just go with me here for a second...) and have it tell me how far I've come and WHEN it'll be time to do this professionally. Okay, I think I'm rambling... I'll send you a note as soon as I figure out how to and I'd really appreciate the link to the tutorial.

But they do, it's called a mentoring program and you can find a mentor on here or locally, work with them, let them teach ya and they can keep you on track. Try local photography clubs, be an intern, etc, etc,. They'll put a value on your work. :thumbup:

 

[TMBPhotography]

how does one find a mentor on here? Just throw it out there and ask?

 

[TooShay]

Thanks for the advice Vince!

^Same question as TMB. Are there willing mentors on this forum?

 

[Derrel]

I just wanted to say for five months, that's not too shabby of a job. I'm really trying to appreciate the whole baby photography niche but I can't get past the kid stuffed in a basket with the same baseboard in a lot of pictures these days. Did you guys all visit the same website for ideas?

It REALLY DOES seem like that to me..the same faker flooring, the same faux baseboards, the same 3x4 foot pieces of background fabric...almost all of the new moms-photographing-the-babies-of-other-moms seem to be churning out work that appears as if it is coming from a color by number painting kit that has been mass-produced. ALmost as if three or four style/opinion leaders have website that are being passed around and emulated by momtographers from all across the USA.

 

[vtf]

Thanks for the advice Vince!

^Same question as TMB. Are there willing mentors on this forum?

Yep, yep and yep but I don't believe anything official by the forum is conducted, it has been suggested tho in the past. I heard a few mention helping beginners behind the scenes. Check with local photography clubs, nearby photographers. Volunteer as an intern locally with a photographer etc., etc., etc.. Search mentoring on this site and others to find what others have brought up for ideas. It will take some work to get started but really can pay off.

 

[TooShay]

I just wanted to say for five months, that's not too shabby of a job. I'm really trying to appreciate the whole baby photography niche but I can't get past the kid stuffed in a basket with the same baseboard in a lot of pictures these days. Did you guys all visit the same website for ideas?

It REALLY DOES seem like that to me..the same faker flooring, the same faux baseboards, the same 3x4 foot pieces of background fabric...almost all of the new moms-photographing-the-babies-of-other-moms seem to be churning out work that appears as if it is coming from a color by number painting kit that has been mass-produced. ALmost as if three or four style/opinion leaders have website that are being passed around and emulated by momtographers from all across the USA.

I think it's just what sells right now. Same goes for every other area of photography. If it's what moms want and are willing to pay the big bucks for, then whatev. I'm not charging at this stage in my photographic journey, but if a mom said "I want this look" I wouldn't say no because "it's been done." Lol!

 

[Derrel]

I would venture to say this fake flooring/fake baseboard/wallpaper cookie cutter stuff is not what moms are paying "the big bucks for". This would be the bottom rung...

 

[MLeeK]

Doing the popular is fine. I believe you should balance it with the timeless and with your own new ideas too.
You need to educate your clients a bit which will do a lot of things to bolster your business:
1. It appears you are looking out for their best interests. "Jane Client I understand that you love the new tie dye look that is so popular right now and we'll absolutely shoot some of those shots, however I want you to remember that in 10 years you will look back at these images and say... What will you say? That is so 2011... What was I thinking? Kind of like when you look at the 80's hair days and say OH MY GOD! Because of that I do both the trendy stuff and a very timeless look that will give you just a beautiful image to stand over time."
2. It inspires confidence in them-holy crap! You know what you are talking about! That is SO true... I remember my Senior Portraits... OH MY LORD!
3. It keeps your own portfolio from showing like that of 100's of the copycats out there.
4. It goes a LONG way into developing your reputation which can be everything if you hit that ONE jackpot client who knows 15 other jackpot clients.

Trendy is fine and fun, but develop a style and a cohesive "package" that is YOU. If it's all about trendy to you? Then that's what you do.
Personally? I do not have any damask in my backdrops while I personally absolutely love damask. Here's my reason: it'll go out of style... Then that is just total trash. I stick to things that I can use over time and if I want damask? There are textures and overlays to give me that look. Is it perfect for everyone? nope!

 

[TooShay]

Well, in my area, moms are paying decent money for that stuff. Granted, they're also paying money for a bunch of fake photographers from craigslist and the super "lovely" Sears portraits, so who's to say that they can distinguish the difference between ANY of it? Heck, maybe the photographers could care less about the set up cliches and are milking the cuteness that the moms go for, for all it's worth. It's doesn't matter if it's good, it matters if it sells, as my dad always says. (Not that I would AGREE with that statement for the most part, just giving you a different point of view of why there are so many photos resemble this set up.) As for why I personally like the set up, I think it's adorable. There's not really any other reason.

 

[MLeeK]

Do you want to sell to a hundred cheap mom's or to one EXPENSIVE one? Personally? I'd rather cater to the exclusive clientele. The cheap ones will work your azz into the ground, expect the world to be handed to them and value you like a dog. They expect everything and more for a measley $50. It's also about the clientele you want to attract. If you want to shoot 7 days a week to make the buck you gotta make you can shoot and compete with those facebook photographers and craigslist wanna be's....
OR you can cater to the top 1% to 10% of the population. One, one thousand dollar sale is a WHOLE LOT easier to work than ten one hundred dollar sales.
Keep that in mind when choosing your "look" and what you are designing your business around.

 

[TooShay]

I don't disagree with you, I just don't see myself catering to that bracket. In my area, I don't see how I'd get any work - not in this economy, anyway. I'm in a unique (or probably not so unique, I have no idea) position because anything that I could potentially make would just be extra income. We don't need the income to survive or pay the bills. I live in a fairly small town and I just don't see where the exclusive clientele would be, you know? I'm sure they are there, in a super small number, but why would they hire me?

On a side note - I read these forums about how wedding photographers are charging upwards of 5k, 10k, even 15k for weddings and it's a TOTAL shock to me as I don't think you could find more than one local photographer in that price bracket here. Is this the norm for much bigger cities? I think we paid around 1k for our wedding photographer last year, and his max package only went up to 2k. He's considered one of the higher priced photographers in our city.

Did I mention that I'd make a terrible business person? It's not in the DNA, I'm telling you. Lol!

 

[Aayria]

I think these are really great for one of your first newborns! I tend to agree with the posters commenting on how much these types of shots are done...but honestly, I think at this point it's great that you're getting decent exposure, color, and posing. Stick to the tried and tested things until you have the basics down so second nature that you can start "stepping outside of the box" with great confidence in your ability. You'll go a long way! =)

 

[MLeeK]

I don't disagree with you, I just don't see myself catering to that bracket. In my area, I don't see how I'd get any work - not in this economy, anyway. I'm in a unique (or probably not so unique, I have no idea) position because anything that I could potentially make would just be extra income. We don't need the income to survive or pay the bills. I live in a fairly small town and I just don't see where the exclusive clientele would be, you know? I'm sure they are there, in a super small number, but why would they hire me?

On a side note - I read these forums about how wedding photographers are charging upwards of 5k, 10k, even 15k for weddings and it's a TOTAL shock to me as I don't think you could find more than one local photographer in that price bracket here. Is this the norm for much bigger cities? I think we paid around 1k for our wedding photographer last year, and his max package only went up to 2k. He's considered one of the higher priced photographers in our city.

Did I mention that I'd make a terrible business person? It's not in the DNA, I'm telling you. Lol!

See, you are still in the mind set that you have to shoot MORE to make more. It's not true. Like I said, ONE $1000 sale is equal to TEN $100 sales. ONE. You need ONE. There is ONE there. And I don't buy into area problems. I live in a town of about 1500 residents. The majority of which are under $25K per year income level. There are 10 little towns just like that surrounding me. The majority of the kids in our school are qualified for free or reduced lunches because it's such a depressed area.
Those people aren't my clients. It's the FEW who have the money who are.
You will get there.
Work smarter, not harder. You have to find the place that is your balance.
You want to make $X per week (month, year...) and you want to work X number of hours (days...)

Me? I want to work about 10 hours maximum on portraiture. That includes editing time. In that 10 hours I have to make my minimum of $1000 to pay me and pay the bills. I can do as many as 4 shoots if I have to and cram it into 10 hours, but I prefer to do about 2. I NEED those sales to be a minimum of $500 to cover my costs. I can't give more hours to portraiture. I have sports photography and I also have another business I keep the office running for. I also have teenagers who are busy and keep me running... I just plain don't have any more time than that. BUt that is what I have to make to stay a float... So... that's my price. And my clients pay it. Happily.

That doesn't include sporting events which I also probably work 20 hours total a week at and have to make $800 off to cover time, COG and CODB.
What do I net out of that $1800? Somewhere between $600 and $700. Not much in today's economy for a family of 4! The rest is COG and CODB. That's not a real hot hourly. We're talking $20 to $23 per hour. For a PROFESSIONAL-that's not much. Our mechanic gets paid more than that. And he didn't graduate from high school.
If I had to do 10 shoots plus sports to make that? I'd be working 70+ hours a week. I'd also be making about $8 per hour. NOT a reasonable salary for a PROFESSIONAL anything. You'd be paid better at Home Depot.

 

[TooShay]

Holy Moly! So you're doing very minimal session time and making that much? You must be amazing! I read the tutorial that you messaged me and it's very thought provoking. Really in-depth and I honestly hadn't thought about a lot of the expenses. It doesn't seem like a lot until it's on paper. Now it seems overwhelming!

 

[MLeeK]

You are beginning to see the hard lines of it and why I am saying what I am saying. And that tutorial leaves out a LOT of the little bits and pieces out.
Honestly? my senior sales are averaging about $800 per session this year. I am NOT one of the HIGH end photographers by any means. My Christmas sales this year are higher than that. I am selling ARTWORKS, not pictures or even photographs. These are large pieces and albums that are heirloom stuff.
I just did a family portrait session that ordered nearly $3000. It's a once a year thing with them and this will hang in their "gallery" for a year. The album will be in their collection of albums forever and it's a quality that is appropriate for them. They aren't ordering a dozen wallets, half dozen 8x10's and a slew of 5x7's. They are ordering large, framed canvases and albums. They are also the only client I have taken for the past 2 weeks so that I can give them every bit of my attention.

At my price I know I am NOT going to draw in 100 clients in a week. I am probably not able to draw in 10 in a week if I tried to with advertising and everything... But it does draw in what I NEED it to.
You have to find that balance.
The average home studio nets about 35% of the cost of service. Or basically 35% of every dollar you bring in.
Now consider your website with theoretical pricing and the price you list. Is 35% minimum wage even? Probably not. If you bring $1000 through your door, you are going to net about $350.

Am I amazing? no. I sure as hell wouldn't say so. But my clients do. They are the type who buy Apple because it's Apple. Porsche or Lexus because of the brand... They think I am awesome and that's all that counts! Do I know what I am doing? Yes. Do I still make mistakes? Absolutely. If I get through a session where every pose in every situation is perfect in my own eyes then I will retire.