Is it artistic or is it just offensive?

[atbawrps]

This is not an image that I would shoot nor would want associated with my name.

 

[PhotoXopher]

Sounds to me like the whole scene might have had more of an impact. The way I picture it when I read your description
(head down, hand on head) is more like it would have depicted shame, however the arm alone looks like it's stating 'power'.

 

[Jose Cuervo]

yeah.. this image isn't offensive to me personally, but i find it shocking. the way the arm is flexed portrays strength behind the swastika as if promoting the idea. it's an image i would expect to find on a neo-nazi website, or a propaganda pamphlet. it invokes emotion, but not a good emotion for me. it's different from seeing images of hungry children, or war-torn nations. i can't describe it, but i just don't want to look at it at all.

however, the possibilities with this prop is endless. i think you can find a way to creatively remind us of this world's history.

 

[Dagwood56]

I like the photo of the model!

Seriously though, the photo does not offend me personally, but I'm sure it would offend many others. If its wrong for public places to have plaques on a building with a religious verse or -gasp - the word God in it some place, then I'm sure this photo would not be appreciated either since the symbol invokes memories for many of the nazi's and the holocaust.

 

[inTempus]

however, the possibilities with this prop is endless. i think you can find a way to creatively remind us of this world's history.

Yeah, you're right. I think I might explore N0YZE's idea. I like the idea of showing him crouched over, in a defeated position. I also happen to have an original WII German k98 Mauser rifle in my gun safe I might include.

 

[linpelk]

This is not an image that I would shoot nor would want associated with my name.

+1

I'd be careful with images like this. I gather from your previous posts that you are more than a hobbyist. If photography was simply a way for you to express yourself through art, then I'd say go for it, but if you are interested in photography as a business or in any way to profit, I would avoid these types of images. You could definitely offend future clients.

 

[coreduo]

It would be utterly ridiculous for the person to support Neo-Nazism. Either he is a stooge of the FBI who welcomes rude treatment to infiltrate the KKK or it might be a coded message that not only are there white racists but black as well like the Black Panthers.

 

[inTempus]

This is not an image that I would shoot nor would want associated with my name.

+1

I'd be careful with images like this. I gather from your previous posts that you are more than a hobbyist. If photography was simply a way for you to express yourself through art, then I'd say go for it, but if you are interested in photography as a business or in any way to profit, I would avoid these types of images. You could definitely offend future clients.

Sound advice, but this image doesn't appear in a public folder on my site - it's hidden. I wouldn't put nudity or this image on my portfolio site as they could offend potential clients. I try to keep my images relatively neutral.

I posted it here after taking the shot for C&C and to discuss if it's art or just an offensive image.

I personally think it's artful. Art is supposed to cause the viewer to think or to experience emotion. Heck, on a quick Google search I found a whole virtual museum of offensive art. Quilt van kwetsende kunst

If I hadn't taken the picture, I would think it was a powerful picture. The light around the arm band is dark and ominous. The symbol is bright and stands out. It does project strength, but in the context of history, strength that was misplaced and ultimately defeated. That's why I like N0YSE's idea of showing more of the model in the crouched, or defeated pose.

 

[inTempus]

It would be utterly ridiculous for the person to support Neo-Nazism. Either he is a stooge of the FBI who welcomes rude treatment to infiltrate the KKK or it might be a coded message that not only are there white racists but black as well like the Black Panthers.

What in the world are you talking about? You might want to put the crack pipe down and slowly back away from the keyboard.

 

[coreduo]

The image would be stronger in Black and White, it would be more "Leni Riefenstahl".

I am a German Jew. My parent's family died in the Holocaust, the small childen starved in a holding camp on the Polish border in 1939 during the notorious "Polen Aktion", the rest moved on to Novi Sanc, where they were ultimately transported to Auschwitz and killed at some point in the fall of 1943. My father survived by being shuttled off to Palestine when he was 5. I now live back in Germany with my wife and three children, and am raising a Jewish family.

Does the image offend? How far along can a photo hobbyist go in evaluating an image out of context, only on a technical or aesthetic basis? Why does every college girl suddenly have a picture of Che Guevara,without actually knowing the history? Is it ok to have fun with the Iwo Jima flag-raising image, esp. since the famous one is posed? Do we look at an image of a marine's being dragged through the street of Baghdad, and say "Hmmm... under-exposed, and poor composition"?

What responsibility does a photographer have when disseminating images? What if the image gets picked up by a search engine? And then a racist organization finds it and uses it? Will the photographer complain about unlawful usage, or stay quiet because suddenly the association with the image is uncomfortable? Is THAT the point where it goes from purely technical/aesthetic to personal matter?

The question I have is who would actually buy such a thing? What kind of places does one go to buy such things? What else does this person have in his closet? Who are the people in his life? Do I want to associate with such people? Does hi boss know? His girlfriend?

If you want to create powerful images, be prepared to ask powerful questions. If you don't want to, then get a macro lens and shoot pretty flowers. Otherwise be prepared to ask all of those first.

I have strong affinity for Jews and compassion, sir. I am Christian protestant. When I try to imagine what the antagonists of history did to them, there's that raging feeling in me. Moreover, the food on my table would not have been there if not for my Jewish boss who pitied a jobless person like me and gave me a chance to prove my worth. I heard they are discriminated and beaten up in the streets of France.

 

[ANDS!]

The image isn't as strong as the material used in it. In fact I was expecting something much more. Technically its fine (a bit underexposed), but on a level of "art" - as someone said, there is so much you could actually do with this prop. A child tossed in a Che shirt, with the swastika band and maybe one of those keffiyeh scarves, all smiles and giggles - now THAT would be shocking to me.

 

[Montana]

I think you succeeded Tharmsen. You have shot a photograph that makes people think......that is what its all about.

 

[inTempus]

I don't really *want* shocking. I just wanted a picture of the arm band being worn vs. laying on a table. I can think of all sorts of things to do that would be shocking.

What part of the image do you think is under exposed? Do you think the arm band is or the skin? I can bump the exposure a little, but in my opinion it takes away from the image... I wanted the dark, ominous look.

 

[Montana]

I think you just said a lot when you said you wanted a "dark, ominous look".

 

[manaheim]

Interesting...

The only thing in world I find offensive, is being offended... and in truth, I really just find that silly but it's more amusing to say it the other way.

People deem things offensive based upon their own personal, cultural, religious, etc. positions and experiences in life. Very obviously what is offensive to one person may not be to another. This has all been said and tends to be clearly understood.

But what I don't get is why people don't take the next step... which is simply that there are really only two acceptable options in the realm of "offense".

1. Be offended by everything.
2. Be offended by nothing.

Simply stated if you allow yourself to be offended selectively, you are effectively saying that your position on issue X is right, and not only is the other person wrong but they are wrong at a level so extreme as to illicit deep emotional reaction from you... and they should change their view. And yet... so often is the case where reversing direction would please you... and offend them. Who is right? Who is in the position to judge what is right?

From taking pictures of strong arms with Nazi symbolism to Howard Stern to flag burning to hate... if you accept one, you must accept all. Why? Because they are expressions of thoughts, ideas, feelings and emotions. They have no impact on you other than vibrating the drums of your ears and firing the optical nerves in your eyes.

To speak such words... make such images... express such thoughts... these are the basis of freedom. True freedom. It is a blessing and a curse, but the curse is an irritant and the blessing is something far far greater.

So...

Would I hang the picture in my living room? No.

Is it offensive? I can say, with pride... no. Not at all. Nothing offends me.