Mirrorless sales closing the gap on DSLR.

beagle100

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Mirrorless sales are on the increase, in an already flat camera market, where the majority of people already have a DSLR,and/or a smart phone camera.apparently minuscule sales numbers in North America and South America mean that they're closing the gap though.

When I looked at the chart presented, my first thought was that for a product to be on the increase over another, you have to have one going up an equal amount to the other's decrease, but that wasn't the case. It appears more a case of mirrorless showing moderate increases in an overall declining market brought on by the popularity of cell phones.

I also have to agree with Derrel that ergonomics is important. There was an earlier comment by Barbarian on his K-01 "Of course, the damn thing is almost as large and bulky as a DSLR; had to be, to use the same lens mount. Ugly as sin" As I noted earlier the mirrorless K-01 has been on the market for years, eliminated the starting over on lenses problem, and still didn't take off. Maybe the "Ugly as Sin" and "bulky" does have something to do with it.

or perhaps it's the smaller size or weight and the ability to use every and all lens
.......... could be
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless
 

Derrel

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beagle100 said:
or perhaps it's the smaller size or weight and the ability to use every and all lens
.......... could be
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

That tired cannard, yet again? Give it a rest. Most people buying a mirrorless want a better camera than a smartphone camera, and could give a rat's patootie about lenses.

The lie you keep promoting is the ability to "use every and all lens". That's not really much of a concern or desire for the majority of mirrorless buyers who are, as most of us know, gearheads who just want a cheap,light,small camera that can be worn as a nice necklace. Not concerned about quality, but just size.
 

RyanLilly

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I'd be interested to see WHO is buying mirrorless cameras. I would guess that a lot of people who own DSLRs and a ton of lenses, have also bought a mirrorless camera just for vacation, or to have a camera that is easy to carry around without all the hassle of a bulky system; something you can keep at the office or in your car. I have not done much photography in the last few years, but am dusting off the old kit. I go on vacation next week, and rather than take my 60D and a pelican case full of lenses, I ordered a 20mm 1.7 for my old Pen E-PL1. It's an old camera, but its small and light and will still take better photos than my iPhone. If I did not have the Pen, I would probably not even bring a camera with me; its too much hassle.

I would also guess that the majority of people who buy a mirrorless with a kit lens, never buy another lens. They just want something better than a cell phone, and less Bulk/hassle than an SLR.

Also, to bring up quality, I've taken concert photos at 800-1600 iso with an 8mp Canon 20D that print just dandy at 20x30, and that's an 8 year old model. The quality of sensors and their low light ability has long surpassed the needs of an average consumer. I know people will still get hung up on megapixels, and high iso detail charts, but it is kind of a moot point. Buy a camera for the size, weight, and convenience.

Camera sales, in general, are steeply declining. If someone made these mirrorless systems connect directly to Snapchat, Instagram, and Facebook accounts, then maybe we would see and an uptick in sales. This is how people share photos now; we are not making an album or sitting around the livingroom digging through shoeboxes full of vacation photos anymore.
 

ac12

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RL,
I guess I am not in your majority of people, base lens + 2 lenses.
Olympus E-M1
lenses: Panasonic 12-60/3.5-56, Olympus 17/1.8 and 40-150/4-5.6​
 

stapo49

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Another one not in the majority. Panasonic GX9, Olympus 25 1.8, Panasonic 12-60 3.5 to 5.6 and Panasonic 45-150. Also I try to wear it over my shoulder not over my neck.

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pixmedic

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i switched to fuji because when we stopped doing weddings, we stopped NEEDING multiple FX DSLR's.
we went mirrorless because we NEVER carried the nikons outside of work...too damn big and heavy.
i can grab the tiny fuji x-a1 or x-e2 and the 18-55 f2.8-4 kit lens and do everything i want to do now.
we dont give a rats ass about being able to adapt every lens ever made, because im never going to use anything on these cameras except actual fuji lenses...i stopped using manual focus lenses when i stopped shooting film cameras. ive bought a few interesting manual lenses that i THOUGHT i might use....turns out i just dont want to mess with manual focus and/or adapted lenses that make you lose AF.
we went with fuji because sony was too damn expensive, and we liked the fuji ergonomics. i really wanted to consider olympus, but we had a somewhat bad experience with olympus and the wife didnt want to go another round with them. we have both been very pleased with fuji, and it suits the portrait work we still do just fine.

my overall opinion (realizing of course that it isnt worth much) is that the companies producing mirrorless cameras have not yet produced a true professional model.
i feel they are close though. in the same way that the D8xx series from nikon is close to their PRO models, but not quite the same as a D4 or D5.
i think this is by design mostly. make consumer and prosumer cameras, add in some pro spec glass, and cater to the tech savy crowd that has to have the latest and greatest as well as the photo enthusiast who doesnt need a high burst rate, super weather sealing, and built in grip but still wants a competitive camera setup.
just my thoughts tho. your mileage may vary.
 

TreeofLifeStairs

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i switched to fuji because when we stopped doing weddings, we stopped NEEDING multiple FX DSLR's.
we went mirrorless because we NEVER carried the nikons outside of work...too damn big and heavy.
i can grab the tiny fuji x-a1 or x-e2 and the 18-55 f2.8-4 kit lens and do everything i want to do now.
we dont give a rats ass about being able to adapt every lens ever made, because im never going to use anything on these cameras except actual fuji lenses...i stopped using manual focus lenses when i stopped shooting film cameras. ive bought a few interesting manual lenses that i THOUGHT i might use....turns out i just dont want to mess with manual focus and/or adapted lenses that make you lose AF.
we went with fuji because sony was too damn expensive, and we liked the fuji ergonomics. i really wanted to consider olympus, but we had a somewhat bad experience with olympus and the wife didnt want to go another round with them. we have both been very pleased with fuji, and it suits the portrait work we still do just fine.

my overall opinion (realizing of course that it isnt worth much) is that the companies producing mirrorless cameras have not yet produced a true professional model.
i feel they are close though. in the same way that the D8xx series from nikon is close to their PRO models, but not quite the same as a D4 or D5.
i think this is by design mostly. make consumer and prosumer cameras, add in some pro spec glass, and cater to the tech savy crowd that has to have the latest and greatest as well as the photo enthusiast who doesnt need a high burst rate, super weather sealing, and built in grip but still wants a competitive camera setup.
just my thoughts tho. your mileage may vary.

The Sony a9 is pretty pro.


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waday

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I go on vacation next week, and rather than take my 60D and a pelican case full of lenses, I ordered a 20mm 1.7 for my old Pen E-PL1. It's an old camera, but its small and light and will still take better photos than my iPhone.
That'll be great for travel! Be sure to share your photos! :)

I would also guess that the majority of people who buy a mirrorless with a kit lens, never buy another lens. They just want something better than a cell phone, and less Bulk/hassle than an SLR.
Like @ac12 and @stapo49 , I am not in the majority you are guesstimating. I'd be interested in learning your references for this.

Olympus OMD EM1 owner here with 6 lenses

Camera sales, in general, are steeply declining. If someone made these mirrorless systems connect directly to Snapchat, Instagram, and Facebook accounts, then maybe we would see and an uptick in sales.
A lot of newer cameras are very close to this, where you can transfer the pictures from camera to phone wirelessly within a minute. While I personally like to take my pictures back and edit them, when requested by my wife, I'll often send a photo to my phone, give it a once over, and have an edited picture to her within 5 minutes (from camera to wife's phone).
 

SquarePeg

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I'd be interested to see WHO is buying mirrorless cameras. I would guess that a lot of people who own DSLRs and a ton of lenses, have also bought a mirrorless camera just for vacation, or to have a camera that is easy to carry around without all the hassle of a bulky system; something you can keep at the office or in your car. I have not done much photography in the last few years, but am dusting off the old kit. I go on vacation next week, and rather than take my 60D and a pelican case full of lenses, I ordered a 20mm 1.7 for my old Pen E-PL1. It's an old camera, but its small and light and will still take better photos than my iPhone. If I did not have the Pen, I would probably not even bring a camera with me; its too much hassle.

I originally bought a mirrorless to use as a vacation/walk around camera. I ended up liking it so much more that I sold all my Nikon gear and made a full switch.

I would also guess that the majority of people who buy a mirrorless with a kit lens, never buy another lens. They just want something better than a cell phone, and less Bulk/hassle than an SLR.

Again I thought that would be me but now I have 4 Fuji lenses and 4 adapted lenses...

Also, to bring up quality, I've taken concert photos at 800-1600 iso with an 8mp Canon 20D that print just dandy at 20x30, and that's an 8 year old model. The quality of sensors and their low light ability has long surpassed the needs of an average consumer. I know people will still get hung up on megapixels, and high iso detail charts, but it is kind of a moot point. Buy a camera for the size, weight, and convenience.

This is the reason I originally wanted the mirrorless - smaller, lighter body and lens. I do think that low light quality is more important than you're giving credit for.

Camera sales, in general, are steeply declining. If someone made these mirrorless systems connect directly to Snapchat, Instagram, and Facebook accounts, then maybe we would see and an uptick in sales. This is how people share photos now; we are not making an album or sitting around the livingroom digging through shoeboxes full of vacation photos anymore.




 

RyanLilly

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I go on vacation next week, and rather than take my 60D and a pelican case full of lenses, I ordered a 20mm 1.7 for my old Pen E-PL1. It's an old camera, but its small and light and will still take better photos than my iPhone.
That'll be great for travel! Be sure to share your photos! :)

I would also guess that the majority of people who buy a mirrorless with a kit lens, never buy another lens. They just want something better than a cell phone, and less Bulk/hassle than an SLR.
Like @ac12 and @stapo49 , I am not in the majority you are guesstimating. I'd be interested in learning your references for this.

Olympus OMD EM1 owner here with 6 lenses

Camera sales, in general, are steeply declining. If someone made these mirrorless systems connect directly to Snapchat, Instagram, and Facebook accounts, then maybe we would see and an uptick in sales.
A lot of newer cameras are very close to this, where you can transfer the pictures from camera to phone wirelessly within a minute. While I personally like to take my pictures back and edit them, when requested by my wife, I'll often send a photo to my phone, give it a once over, and have an edited picture to her within 5 minutes (from camera to wife's phone).


I don't have any references. It was a guess based on my limited observations of people around me. I think I read an article a few years back that this was the case with DSLRs in the mid-2000's when they began to get popular in the consumer market. There were a lot of kits that came with either the short zoom, or a short and a long zoom, and that covered most casual users needs. When you get an 18-55, and a 50-250 zoom in a kit, a lot of people are perfectly content with the set, especially if they just want to take pictures at their kids' soccer games and family BBQ's.

I would not be too surprised the trend was different for mirrorless cameras. When DSLRs became popular, it seemed like everyone and their mom was buying a kit or getting one for Christmas, and becoming a "professional." This was also before the smartphone, and point and shoot camera quality and features were all over the board, so DSLRs below a $1k was a big deal. It was pretty trendy for a while, so there were a lot of casual users and a lot of people who just got bored with photography and never had the need to buy more lenses. With how good of pictures you can get with cell phones now, I could see that a lot of people who hopped on the DSLR bandwagon wouldn't bother now, so the people buying any camera these days are probably more serious about it and more likely to buy lenses and accessories.

I'll for sure take some vacation pictures and post them. Going to NYC, and then upstate. I've been there bunches of times, but only for work, never as a tourist, so It should be fun.
 

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I still hardly ever see a mirrorless out in the wild. Most people of course have a phone. Theres still some compacts out there. And DSLRs. And a surprising amount of film cameras.
 

Jeff15

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For many years I used all Nikon gear as I am a very keen enthusiast Photographer, I have over the years sold a few pictures but I am by no means a professional.
I started to find it difficult lugging all my Nikon gear ( DSLR + 3 lenses ) around particularly uphill. I went to the doctor and found that I was suffering from COPD.
Just after this, I sold all my Nikon gear and bought my first mirrorless camera and two lenses for it weighs about one-third of my Nikon gear and the picture quality amazed me.
I am now using a Panasonic top of the range G9 and when I show images at photo clubs no one can tell that the images were shot on a mirrorless camera, I can compete with anyone with any camera. I rest my case.
 
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cgw

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I still hardly ever see a mirrorless out in the wild. Most people of course have a phone. Theres still some compacts out there. And DSLRs. And a surprising amount of film cameras.
Sounds like you've got a case of "confirmation bias." I see small entry-level DSLR's around tourists' necks but also Fuji MILCs and other mirrorless many consider "street" cameras like the Fuji X100 cameras or smaller Sonys, Panasonics and Olympus. Just started shooting a near-invisible Ricoh GR II that's often mistaken for a phone. It's the larger prosumer and pro camera shooters weighed down with lens tonnage I rarely see around downtown Toronto now. YMMV, and obviously does.
 

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