Missed opportunity

[amolitor]

I'd like to interject a bit off topic here, since Derrel brings it up.

I got no problem with spray and pray, if it produces results. So what if the "creative act" is largely in looking at the contact sheets (or digital equivalent)? Nobody ever gets it "right" in the camera 100% of the time, so it's really just a quibble about degree, not of kind, and even if it WAS of kind, why does it matter? Spray and pray just tries to whittle the WHole Real World down to a large but more manageable world in real time, and then goes looking through the smaller world for the image. What's wrong with that?

 

[pixmedic]

I'd like to interject a bit off topic here, since Derrel brings it up.

I got no problem with spray and pray, if it produces results. So what if the "creative act" is largely in looking at the contact sheets (or digital equivalent)? Nobody ever gets it "right" in the camera 100% of the time, so it's really just a quibble about degree, not of kind, and even if it WAS of kind, why does it matter? Spray and pray just tries to whittle the WHole Real World down to a large but more manageable world in real time, and then goes looking through the smaller world for the image. What's wrong with that?

you bring up an interesting point here (as you often seem to do) but I would like to add one little tidbit to it, if I may. (and i will)
I typically hear the words "spray and pray" used as a derogatory term, and sometimes..."sometimes", with possibly good reason.
I understand that it is used (maybe often) by people in lieu of "knowing" when to take the proper shot, or waiting for the proper moment, or whatever the case may be. I would like to point out however, that sometimes..."sometimes", it is an almost necessary tool for getting "just the right shot". sporting events are often that sometimes. there are occasions at weddings where my wife will do it, like at the bouquet toss, to make sure she gets just the right shot she wanted. Like any technique in a photographers arsenal, there are people that will tell you there is a "right way" and a "wrong way"....and then there are people that just go out and get the photograph they wanted.

 

[gsgary]

I'd like to interject a bit off topic here, since Derrel brings it up.

I got no problem with spray and pray, if it produces results. So what if the "creative act" is largely in looking at the contact sheets (or digital equivalent)? Nobody ever gets it "right" in the camera 100% of the time, so it's really just a quibble about degree, not of kind, and even if it WAS of kind, why does it matter? Spray and pray just tries to whittle the WHole Real World down to a large but more manageable world in real time, and then goes looking through the smaller world for the image. What's wrong with that?

you bring up an interesting point here (as you often seem to do) but I would like to add one little tidbit to it, if I may. (and i will)
I typically hear the words "spray and pray" used as a derogatory term, and sometimes..."sometimes", with possibly good reason.
I understand that it is used (maybe often) by people in lieu of "knowing" when to take the proper shot, or waiting for the proper moment, or whatever the case may be. I would like to point out however, that sometimes..."sometimes", it is an almost necessary tool for getting "just the right shot". sporting events are often that sometimes. there are occasions at weddings where my wife will do it, like at the bouquet toss, to make sure she gets just the right shot she wanted. Like any technique in a photographers arsenal, there are people that will tell you there is a "right way" and a "wrong way"....and then there are people that just go out and get the photograph they wanted.

I beg to differ, i never spray and pray when shooting sport 90% of the time you will get the shot either side of the moment you wanted when i'm shooting on the street i cant spray and pray because i'm using a film Leica M4, here's an example shot with Leica M4 spay and you might not have got the foot still on the pier

 

[coastalconn]

"Spray and pray" as some call it is an essential part of wildlife photography, especially if you have a small twitchy bird and want just the right pose and a perfect catchlight. Or if you want to grab an 8 frame sequence like my eagles the other day.. I wanted a d300 with a grip for a reason. Especially when Osprey season starts up again. And who cares? It's digital take as many pictures as you want, throw out the bad ones and enjoy the good ones... There must be a reason the d4 does 11 FPS.. Just saying..

 

[rexbobcat]

Yes but it's different when getting approximately the good shot is basically not getting the shot at all. When I assisted Sport Illustrated at a college football game they would anticipate the action and then spray, because they really could not afford to not get the exact shot they need. And since they now have DSLRs capable of shooting at half the FPS of the cinema (12 FPS), it makes the act of getting the shot that much more precise.

I don't understand people who just spray, and spray, and spray some more, but if you anticipate the action and then let loose I find that from a career/job standpoint it's much more "safe."

Now, if I'm shooting my brother playing HS basketball or something then having a photo that's .1 seconds off isn't that big of an issue.

I don't think of you like this, but in certain instances people saying "I don't believe in spray and pray" or something along those lines reminds me of people who says "I never Photoshop." I mean, do you want a cookie or something? lol

 

[pixmedic]

I'd like to interject a bit off topic here, since Derrel brings it up.

I got no problem with spray and pray, if it produces results. So what if the "creative act" is largely in looking at the contact sheets (or digital equivalent)? Nobody ever gets it "right" in the camera 100% of the time, so it's really just a quibble about degree, not of kind, and even if it WAS of kind, why does it matter? Spray and pray just tries to whittle the WHole Real World down to a large but more manageable world in real time, and then goes looking through the smaller world for the image. What's wrong with that?

you bring up an interesting point here (as you often seem to do) but I would like to add one little tidbit to it, if I may. (and i will)
I typically hear the words "spray and pray" used as a derogatory term, and sometimes..."sometimes", with possibly good reason.
I understand that it is used (maybe often) by people in lieu of "knowing" when to take the proper shot, or waiting for the proper moment, or whatever the case may be. I would like to point out however, that sometimes..."sometimes", it is an almost necessary tool for getting "just the right shot". sporting events are often that sometimes. there are occasions at weddings where my wife will do it, like at the bouquet toss, to make sure she gets just the right shot she wanted. Like any technique in a photographers arsenal, there are people that will tell you there is a "right way" and a "wrong way"....and then there are people that just go out and get the photograph they wanted.

I beg to differ, i never spray and pray when shooting sport 90% of the time you will get the shot either side of the moment you wanted when i'm shooting on the street i cant spray and pray because i'm using a film Leica M4, here's an example shot with Leica M4 spay and you might not have got the foot still on the pier

so do you differ with my entire statement, or just the sports analogy? I don't do sports photography, so I was just imagining that anytime you have fast moving objects, "spray and pray" MIGHT prove effective in some situations. otherwise, why do the "pro" cameras have a higher FPS than the consumer cameras?

 

[Rick58]

" ...Thus their pictures, however good technically, are artistically boring to tears - nothing I would look at unless there was a calendar below it."


It's unfortunate, but that attitude is exactly why I don't post often. My interest isn't in the "art" side of photography. As everyone knows, my interest is in record / snapshots. The unfortunate part is becuase they are viewed as such, they are mostly overlooked and passed by.
I have no interest in changing my views or interests, but I'm VERY interested in hearing how a shot could have been better, without changing the overall subject. Just because it's a record shot, doesn't mean it has to be "boring" or a photo out of Granny's photo album. There is so much that can be discussed on a simple record shot. Exposure, cropping, angle of the shot, lighting etc...
Any way, that's why I don't post often...Rant over.

 

[gsgary]

" ...Thus their pictures, however good technically, are artistically boring to tears - nothing I would look at unless there was a calendar below it."


It's unfortunate, but that attitude is exactly why I don't post often. My interest isn't in the "art" side of photography. As everyone knows, my interest is in record / snapshots. The unfortunate part is becuase they are viewed as such, they are mostly overlooked and passed by.
I have no interest in changing my views or interests, but I'm VERY interested in hearing how a shot could have been better, without changing the overall subject. Just because it's a record shot, doesn't mean it has to be "boring" or a photo out of Granny's photo album. There is so much that can be discussed on a simple record shot. Exposure, cropping, angle of the shot, lighting etc...
Any way, that's why I don't post often...Rant over.

My best friend at our camera club does a lot of record shots of land marks but they have an arty feel, but some of his older record are priceless because most of the landmarks have dissapeared

 

[The_Traveler]

" ...Thus their pictures, however good technically, are artistically boring to tears - nothing I would look at unless there was a calendar below it."


It's unfortunate, but that attitude is exactly why I don't post often. My interest isn't in the "art" side of photography. As everyone knows, my interest is in record / snapshots. The unfortunate part is becuase they are viewed as such, they are mostly overlooked and passed by.
I have no interest in changing my views or interests, but I'm VERY interested in hearing how a shot could have been better, without changing the overall subject. Just because it's a record shot, doesn't mean it has to be "boring" or a photo out of Granny's photo album. There is so much that can be discussed on a simple record shot. Exposure, cropping, angle of the shot, lighting etc...
Any way, that's why I don't post often...Rant over.

Sorry, I don't get the connection here.
You don't post because you don't get feedback?

Or am I missing something?

 

[Rick58]

" ...Thus their pictures, however good technically, are artistically boring to tears - nothing I would look at unless there was a calendar below it."


It's unfortunate, but that attitude is exactly why I don't post often. My interest isn't in the "art" side of photography. As everyone knows, my interest is in record / snapshots. The unfortunate part is becuase they are viewed as such, they are mostly overlooked and passed by.
I have no interest in changing my views or interests, but I'm VERY interested in hearing how a shot could have been better, without changing the overall subject. Just because it's a record shot, doesn't mean it has to be "boring" or a photo out of Granny's photo album. There is so much that can be discussed on a simple record shot. Exposure, cropping, angle of the shot, lighting etc...
Any way, that's why I don't post often...Rant over.

Sorry, I don't get the connection here.
You don't post because you don't get feedback?

Or am I missing something?

Pretty much Lew. If I post and ask for C&C, it's because I want I want to hear how my photo could be made better AS A SUBJECT. My red barn shot is a perfect example. Common opinion was "Yep it's a barn", but it got much better reviews when I just focused on the doors.
The problem is, the doors alone are not a record of the barn or tell me what I could have done to improve it as a record shot. You said yourself that you are bored to tears with this type of photo unless there is a calendar attached and it seems that is pretty much the common consensus.

 

[PixelRabbit]

I'm not one of the experienced photographers around here so I can't really weigh in on why they post or don't post what they do but I can weigh in on posting and not getting feedback.

For a while I was getting post after post passed up or with very few comments, that is just as telling as the posts that get a lot of action. Most posts that got passed up I didn't give enough to the viewer in my description to give them a jumping off point and the shots were admittedly mediocre for the most part (looking back now). Mediocre or documentary (NO I'm not saying documentary is mediocre!!) without a pointed question to go along with it will almost always get passed up here, if you aren't going to stimulate the mind with something visual for people to latch onto and be compelled to post then you have to stimulate the mind by what you SAY by posing a question, stating your intent, giving your own thoughts... something!!
Reaction or lack thereof can teach you sooooo much, it is for each individual to figure out why they aren't getting the reaction or input they want, especially when there is zero reaction.

 

[gsgary]

I know why i dont get many replies to my photos i'm a bit of an arse

 

[JAC526]

I know why i dont get many replies to my photos i'm a bit of an arse

Really?

 

[The_Traveler]

Pretty much Lew. If I post and ask for C&C, it's because I want I want to hear how my photo could be made better AS A SUBJECT. My red barn shot is a perfect example. Common opinion was "Yep it's a barn", but it got much better reviews when I just focused on the doors.
The problem is, the doors alone are not a record of the barn or tell me what I could have done to improve it as a record shot. You said yourself that you are bored to tears with this type of photo unless there is a calendar attached and it seems that is pretty much the common consensus.

For a while I was getting post after post passed up or with very few comments, that is just as telling as the posts that get a lot of action. Most posts that got passed up I didn't give enough to the viewer in my description to give them a jumping off point and the shots were admittedly mediocre for the most part (looking back now). Mediocre or documentary (NO I'm not saying documentary is mediocre!!) without a pointed question to go along with it will almost always get passed up here, if you aren't going to stimulate the mind with something visual for people to latch onto and be compelled to post then you have to stimulate the mind by what you SAY by posing a question, stating your intent, giving your own thoughts... something!!

Reaction or lack thereof can teach you sooooo much, it is for each individual to figure out why they aren't getting the reaction or input they want, especially when there is zero reaction.

What she said.
If I see something that I have no connection to, no way to understand what and why you are shooting, or what you think is deficient, I have nowhere to go and I just leave.

I have to respond to something, and if it isn't visible, then you have to tell me.

Fill in the blanks-

I want to ..............
I don't know how to............
This isn't...............
I'm missing......................

I'm willing to do my part as much as I can, but reading minds is out of my area of competence.

 

[fjrabon]

It's a tough compromise. SOOOO many people post on here just wanting attaboys and similarly there are a few posters who critique more to put their 'enemies' down than anything else. It can get tiring.

That being said, sure, we still need to try to do it and we still need to post our stuff up.

Commentary on photography is what keeps this place alive and as someone that this place has helped I feel some duty to keep it going for myself and others by posting as much critique and photos as I can. I've been trying to do one a day and respond to at least three, to the extent where sometimes I feel like I overwhelm the galleries with my mediocre work, haha.

And I think we all hold back too much on posting shots we aren't 100% happy with. I know I learned as much by trying to critique imperfect shots as anything else here. It made me start to think why a shot didnt work, which is the first step to fixing it in the field.