On C&C....

[manaheim]

I still don't know how to ask for CC any other way other than CC welcome and encouraged.

"How's my lighting?"
"How can I improve my composition?"
"Can my posing be improved?
"What emotion does this photo evoke?"
"I had trouble with exposure, what do you suggest would help?
"How can I improve the tones in this image?"
"The shadows were harsh here, how can I open them?"

Need I go on?

Most beginners wouldn't know to ask these questions.

Going back to the pool analogy... someone who dives into the deep end is going to mostly splash around violently, gasp for breath and scream "HELP!"

They are not going to be asking the proper technique for doing the breast stroke or whether or not shaving their legs is going to save them 3 seconds on the lap clock.

 

[PhotoWrangler]

I do find it interesting how this hobby is so easily "get up and go" without much thought of it being something much deeper than snappping pics, something that really requires further study.

If you could go down to the dealership and buy a race car, as easy as you can go down to walmart and buy a digital camera... I'm sure there'd be more "get up and go" 'nascar drivers' too.

 

[Overread]

Fishing, photography, model wargaming, pc games, knitting, etc... Any hobby which has sufficiently low entry costs and which has no overhead licences/restrictions upon it will generally attract new people who won't approach it with studied research, careful planning and lots of pre-hobby preparation. And heck yes they'll make mistakes - lots of them.

 

[The_Traveler]

It would be useful if, when someone registered, they got an email with some basic information - in large type.

 

[manaheim]

It would be useful if, when someone registered, they got an email with some basic information - in large type.

Or maybe tied to a brick and thrown through their window???

 

[Overread]

It would be useful if, when someone registered, they got an email with some basic information - in large type.

Or maybe tied to a brick and thrown through their window???

We tried, but lego bricks just don't work well at breaking windows - and they are all we can afford in the budget after the last mods Christmas party

 

[PhotoWrangler]

We tried, but lego bricks just don't work well at breaking windows - and they are all we can afford in the budget after the last mods Christmas party

Ah... bitter's hourly strippers rate took too much of the budget?

 

[jake337]

I can't go on 1x.com right now because I am at work but they are very picky on how critique is given over there. Reading this guide may help some.

1x.com - Critique

1x.com - How to Write Critique

 

[deeky]

I agree that more specific requests would be great, ideally. But now a bit of reality - as much as you want to gripe and moan, the only one you can ultimately change is yourself. If you want things to improve, start there. As a relative newcommer, I'm already really tired of the petty cat fights between longstanding members that happen in some poor newcommer's thread. That just gives the forum a bad image, forget about my opinion of the cats doing the fighting. For anyone even considering working pro - POTENTIAL CLIENTS WILL GOOGLE YOU. If you use any piece of your real name or company name here, it will pop up on a Google search. There are a whole lot of 'professional' photographers on here that I would never consider working with based on their statements.

I am just fine with this thread being started every few weeks as long as the cat fights happen here and not in some unsuspecting poster's thread originally about something completely different.

Even if you don't like their work or the way they ask for help, don't be a douche in your response and you yourself will probably prevent 90% the over-reactive newcommers that pop off.

 

[PhotoWrangler]

I can't go on 1x.com right now because I am at work but they are very picky on how critique is given over there. Reading this guide may help some.

1x.com - Critique

1x.com - How to Write Critique

OMG How have I NEVER seen this site! Its awesome! Not that I'm joining or anything, but the photos are definitely gorgeous.

 

[terri]

When I first joined a photography forum 6 years ago I put an image up on the board and got told it was not sharp and basically sucked. I was so hurt that I didn't return to that forum for 6 months to a year later. My skin is thick today. I can accept constructive criticism even non constructive criticism too. I look back at that first image often and think, what was I thinking. LOL Thank God I have learned how to accept CC and take what I need and leave the rest. I still don't know how to ask for CC any other way other than CC welcome and encouraged. If you see something that I need to improve on by all means tell me. I can take it.

You can now, but I'm sorry that ever had to happen to you. A pretty crappy way to learn about something when you were still vulnerable to attack.

And with this thread, Chris is coming from a good place. Part of the trouble is the number of variables involved while working up the energy to answer a newbie's genuine request for C&C - and studying variables takes time. Do the forum veterans forget that it takes some courage from a newbie to even post a photo - especially if they do believe it looks good? Sure. Do newbies forget that they are newbies, and that taking 50 shots from their digital P&S does not equate experience? Sure.

Does everyone have a bad day when questions or replies on this forum hit them the wrong way, for any number of reasons?

When a more experienced photographer comes across a newbie's first efforts, maybe the Play Doh analogy should come to mind. There aren't many adults who would deliberately rip a child's first efforts at making a bowl. If it didn't really resemble a bowl, one might pose the question: What were you trying to make here?

But then, I tend to agree with the C&C school of thought that it's not a bad thing for newbs to, perhaps not explain a shot if the subject matter is obvious, but offer up basic techniques applied and then ask for comments. If they are still kids with Plah Doh, they don't even know enough to do that.

C&C is for grownups. Even most kids can take a mild comment. Trouble can start when the so-called forum experts can't or won't take the time to make one.

 

[HughGuessWho]

The whole notion that some should tell you what they don't know is ridiculous. If I am new at something, and have little or no real knowledge, how would I know what to ask?

 

[Derrel]

I do find it interesting how this hobby is so easily "get up and go" without much thought of it being something much deeper than snappping pics, something that really requires further study.

If you could go down to the dealership and buy a race car, as easy as you can go down to walmart and buy a digital camera... I'm sure there'd be more "get up and go" 'nascar drivers' too.

Could somebody here please tell me what kind of race car to buy? I'm a dad, with one kid,and really want to collect on the life insurance policy I have, so I was thinking, hey,m maybe a nice race car 'incident' would be a way to do it and make it look convincingly accidental! Not sure what my budget is, but I know I want a race car I will not outgrow in like, six races. Thanks for any help you guys can give me! U guys R awesome! Toodles!

 

[PhotoWrangler]

The whole notion that some should tell you what they don't know is ridiculous. If I am new at something, and have little or no real knowledge, how would I know what to ask?

Whats ridiculous is that a 'photographer' would try to say that they know absolutely nothing about a photograph. If someone is snapping shots, and posting questions about them, they obviously have something in mind that they want to know about. They have to have seen a photograph before, and their obviously wondering why their photograph isn't as good as the one they've tried to emulate.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

The whole notion that some should tell you what they don't know is ridiculous. If I am new at something, and have little or no real knowledge, how would I know what to ask?

...They have to have seen a photograph before, and their obviously wondering why their photograph isn't as good as the one they've tried to emulate.

Yes they are wondering. They are wondering because they lack the language to talk about it. That's what we can teach them. Then they grow.