On C&C....

[manaheim]

Earlier today I asked a coworker about something related to enterprise storage. I knew essentially what I was asking, but I didn't know anything about storage so I wound up sounding crazy and he had NO idea what I was asking about. That's essentially what we're talking about here.

 

[PhotoWrangler]

meh f**k it... its a lost cause.

 

[MTVision]

Whats ridiculous is that a 'photographer' would try to say that they know absolutely nothing about a photograph. If someone is snapping shots, and posting questions about them, they obviously have something in mind that they want to know about. They have to have seen a photograph before, and their obviously wondering why their photograph isn't as good as the one they've tried to emulate.

When I joined this site I would never have considered myself a photographer. I had just gotten my camera and was interested in photography but knew nothing about it - I had never even been on a forum. So I spent a little time here and read a little bit - it was mostly about forum etiquette though . Anyways, I posted a couple pictures for CC because that's what most of the threads I saw were. I knew nothing about photography. I was still shooting in auto and just snapping away. The questions you posted earlier about composition, lighting, etc. ---- I wouldn't have had the faintest idea what all of that meant so I sure as hell couldn't have asked it.

It's been about a year since I've joined and I've learned a lot and hopefully my photography has improved. Now if I post for CC - I could ask for specific things because I know a little bit about the craft.

A little off topic but I had been on TPF for a month - id bought a bunch of books that were recommended as well as followed millions of links posted here. I also spent a lot of time just reading through the forum. By the time school started up - I was taking digital photography I - I already knew everything (and more) that was taught in that class. I ended up being more of a teachers helper then a student. And I didn't just learn photography - photoshop as well. If it wasn't for this forum I'd probably still be using my camera as an expensive point and shoot

 

[HughGuessWho]

Whats ridiculous is that a 'photographer' would try to say that they know absolutely nothing about a photograph. If someone is snapping shots, and posting questions about them, they obviously have something in mind that they want to know about. They have to have seen a photograph before, and their obviously wondering why their photograph isn't as good as the one they've tried to emulate.

Ok, a person buys their first camera and takes some snapshots. They are proud of their pictures and post a few. Now, you want them to ask if the DOF and bokeh is acceptable when they don't even know what DOF and bokeh is. Get real. People start somewhere and for many that means they know what a camera is and how to make it go "click".

 

[The_Traveler]

We can blame this all on the equipment manufacturers.
The P&S cameras now are so automatic and good that a newbie takes a picture and marvels.
"Man, the color is great, everything is in focus and sharp!'
The perceived difference, which they don't know enough to see, between their pictures and truly professional shots is minimal as far as they are concerned.

So their reaction is, 'hey, I've heard photography is hard and my pictures look great, I must be a forking talented genius.'

So they come here to show us their everything-in-focus, P&S pictures, somehow expecting that they will be hailed as a diamond in the rough and welcomed.
They don't know enough to be able to perceive any difference between their shots and magazine covers.

My attitude is that no one should be that naive.
Things are thought to be difficult and require talent because they do.
No sensate being would expect to play the piano at Carnegie Hall, be an Olympic diver or a neurosurgeon without some knowledge, training and experience.

Don't run into a new environment, waving your 'stuff' and expect to be the second coming of the photo-messiah.

It just ain't so.

They should look around a bit and, if not understand, at least realize what they don't know.

 

[PhotoWrangler]

... start somewhere and for many that means they know what a camera is and how to make it go "click".

Then they have absolutely no business asking for c&c if that's all they know how to do. Especially if they get pissed when their snapshots are called nothing more than snapshots.

 

[MTVision]

Then they have absolutely no business asking for c&c if that's all they know how to do. Especially if they get pissed when their snapshots are called nothing more than snapshots.

Not all newbies get pissed when you tell them how it is. Saying they have no business asking for c&c is kind of ridiculous. Some people come to forums to learn or because they have an interest. The ones who aren't serious don't stay around so I don't get what the big deal is. If you don't want to c&c newbies photos/snapshots then don't.

We can blame this all on the equipment manufacturers.
The P&S cameras now are so automatic and good that a newbie takes a picture and marvels.
"Man, the color is great, everything is in focus and sharp!'
The perceived difference, which they don't know enough to see, between their pictures and truly professional shots is minimal as far as they are concerned.

So their reaction is, 'hey, I've heard photography is hard and my pictures look great, I must be a forking talented genius.'

So they come here to show us their everything-in-focus, P&S pictures, somehow expecting that they will be hailed as a diamond in the rough and welcomed.
They don't know enough to be able to perceive any difference between their shots and magazine covers.

My attitude is that no one should be that naive.
Things are thought to be difficult and require talent because they do.
No sensate being would expect to play the piano at Carnegie Hall, be an Olympic diver or a neurosurgeon without some knowledge, training and experience.

Don't run into a new environment, waving your 'stuff' and expect to be the second coming of the photo-messiah.

It just ain't so.

They should look around a bit and, if not understand, at least realize what they don't know.

Well I must be that naive. I didn't come in here thinking I was the best photographer ever but like I said before - I knew absolutely nothing about photography. I posted for c&c and got some replies and I thanked everybody. Then I spent way too much time on this forum and on the Internet learning what I could. Which who knows if that would've happened if I hadn't come on here and posted for c&c and found out exactly how much I didn't know.

 

[HughGuessWho]

Then they have absolutely no business asking for c&c if that's all they know how to do. Especially if they get pissed when their snapshots are called nothing more than snapshots.

That's fine, but it has nothing to do with the point of your post. "Pissed" about the C&C wasn't included in your original point. You want them to asked for specific and technical advice when they are just learning. Excuse me but I wasn't aware this forum was only for the highly experienced photographers like yourself. I always thought all levels were welcome, even newbies that don't know what to ask. But in your eyes I guess they "have absolutely no business" to ask and experienced photographer for help in learning. Amazing.

 

[PhotoWrangler]

You're excused.

 

[Fred Berg]

I got into a taxi at the airport in Paris once and had to direct the driver to my destination even though I'd never been there before; and he was the taxi driver, not me. A very odd experience made even more difficult as I don't speak French and he couldn't speak either English or German. I got in thinking he would know his way round his own town and I would be taken to where I wanted to go with the minimum of fuss....silly moi.

 

[manaheim]

Then they have absolutely no business asking for c&c if that's all they know how to do. Especially if they get pissed when their snapshots are called nothing more than snapshots.

That's fine, but it has nothing to do with the point of your post. "Pissed" about the C&C they wasn't included. You want them to asked for specific and technical advice when they are just learning. Excuse me but I wasn't aware this forum was only for the highly experienced photographers like yourself. I always thought all levels were welcome, even newbies that don't know what to ask. But in your eyes I guess they "have absolutely no business" to ask and experienced photographer for help in learning. Amazing.

This thread has taken sort of a bizarre turn. We started... I think... trying to help the noobs out... and now the originator of the entire thread appears to have decided to isolate the noobs and kick them off the forum.



wtf?

 

[PhotoWrangler]

No. What I'm saying is that if they want C&C, then they need to know how to specifically ask for it. If they do not know what C&C is, or what they want to accomplish with it, then they have no business asking for it.

 

[manaheim]

No. What I'm saying is that if they want C&C, then they need to know how to specifically ask for it. If they do not know what C&C is, or what they want to accomplish with it, then they have no business asking for it.

Seriously, dude. That's just nuts.

 

[PhotoWrangler]

Seriously, dude. That's just nuts.

So is you're opinion, but I'm not faulting you for it.

 

[pgriz]

No. What I'm saying is that if they want C&C, then they need to know how to specifically ask for it. If they do not know what C&C is, or what they want to accomplish with it, then they have no business asking for it.

Perhaps we should ask: what kind of C&C do you want? Pick one of the options below:
1) Tell me how brilliant and innovative I am.
2) Give me a pat on the back.
3) Tell me what I need to do technically to improve.
4) Tell me if the image is interesting to you. Is there something in the composition that I can improve?

1 is usually the domain of the newbie who has discovered photography and is excited to be producing images.
2 is usually the unspoken request by experienced photographers who post pretty good images.
3 is usually the request from relatively new to intermediate photographers trying to learn.
4 is the request from someone interested in how the image plays in the wider audience. Could be a newbie, could be an advanced photographer trying something new.

Did I miss any?