Wedding question

[tirediron]

So sick of SOME of the people on here where you only come on people's posts to bash them! It's my first wedding, so what? You ALL started somewhere and were once in my position. So before you go and say "DON'T do the shoot." Would you have? Have you ever done a shoot for a friend? Probably! I don't want to hear negative comments, I'm my own person and I'll do as I please and will not tolerate people who just bash my posts all day. So for those of you who were helpful, thank you!! Don't even bother commenting unless in regards to my question.

Hold the 'phone.... NO ONE is bashing you! What you have received here is a LOT of good advice, either based on mistakes that have been made first-hand and/or mistakes we've seen others make and hope to prevent you from repeating. Yes, there is a LOT of negative commentary about someone taking on their first wedding as a solo act, and with limited gear? Why, because this is a one-time, no do-over event, and every wedding photographer here has seen or knows of someone in your situation who has taken this on and had it go horribly wrong! There's no shame in 'just starting out' we all did (and many would say I still am!), but there's starting, and then there's starting smart.

Working for friends and family seems like a natural thing to do, but it has caused more broken friendships and family squabbles than you can count.

Good luck!

 

[shutterbug77]

When and where is the wedding to be held??

 

[TCampbell]

So sick of SOME of the people on here where you only come on people's posts to bash them! It's my first wedding, so what? You ALL started somewhere and were once in my position. So before you go and say "DON'T do the shoot." Would you have? Have you ever done a shoot for a friend? Probably! I don't want to hear negative comments, I'm my own person and I'll do as I please and will not tolerate people who just bash my posts all day. So for those of you who were helpful, thank you!! Don't even bother commenting unless in regards to my question.

I'm assuming you're having some sort of bad day. The irony is... you appear to be collectively bashing "some folks" (I'm not sure who those are) for bashing you.

But the confusing bit is that I went back and re-read through the threads on this post... and I actually don't see anyone bashing you. So I'm not sure what elicited this response.

From time to time I have to write papers and articles. Many years ago, it was a regular part of my job. So I once asked a wise mentor how he comes up with the subject matter for his articles. He answered that he uses two things:

1) What questions to people ask you about ... over and over. (that happens here all the time)
2) What questions do people NOT ask you about ... but based on your experience, you realize that they should have. (again... that also happens here all the time)

You asked about wedding lenses for a first-time wedding. Specifically (and I'll just copy paste your quote here):

My friend has asked me to shoot her wedding, I've never done weddings and the thought of it makes me nervous. I was wondering what your typical go to lenses are for a wedding?

You made it pretty clear that (a) you've never done a wedding and (b) you're nervous.

Ok... based on that, everyone responded with the best advice they could give -- both for the question you did ask, but also... based on their experience, they offered things that perhaps they wished they'd known before a "first wedding" (things you "didn't ask... but should have".)

How is this bashing?

But just to be clear... I have a few rules, and I suspect that I am not alone in my thinking on this topic. One rule is this: When someone asks for advice ... they should be prepared to listen to the answers provided -- whatever those answers happen to be and regardless of whether or not it's the answer you were hoping to hear.

You're not paying for the advice. You asked to have it freely provided... and it was freely given in response to your request. And yet for some reason, you're hostile to those (or at least some of those) who took the time to read your request and write a reply.

 

[manaheim]

But just to be clear... I have a few rules, and I suspect that I am not alone in my thinking on this topic. One rule is this: When someone asks for advice ... they should be prepared to listen to the answers provided -- whatever those answers happen to be and regardless of whether or not it's the answer you were hoping to hear.

I always love the advice TCampbell provides, but AMEN to this one in particular.

 

[SamiJoSchwirtz]

I'm assuming you're having some sort of bad day. The irony is... you appear to be collectively bashing "some folks" (I'm not sure who those are) for bashing you. But the confusing bit is that I went back and re-read through the threads on this post... and I actually don't see anyone bashing you. So I'm not sure what elicited this response. From time to time I have to write papers and articles. Many years ago, it was a regular part of my job. So I once asked a wise mentor how he comes up with the subject matter for his articles. He answered that he uses two things: 1) What questions to people ask you about ... over and over. (that happens here all the time) 2) What questions do people NOT ask you about ... but based on your experience, you realize that they should have. (again... that also happens here all the time) You asked about wedding lenses for a first-time wedding. Specifically (and I'll just copy paste your quote here): You made it pretty clear that (a) you've never done a wedding and (b) you're nervous. Ok... based on that, everyone responded with the best advice they could give -- both for the question you did ask, but also... based on their experience, they offered things that perhaps they wished they'd known before a "first wedding" (things you "didn't ask... but should have".) How is this bashing? But just to be clear... I have a few rules, and I suspect that I am not alone in my thinking on this topic. One rule is this: When someone asks for advice ... they should be prepared to listen to the answers provided -- whatever those answers happen to be and regardless of whether or not it's the answer you were hoping to hear. You're not paying for the advice. You asked to have it freely provided... and it was freely given in response to your request. And yet for some reason, you're hostile to those (or at least some of those) who took the time to read your request and write a reply.

I understand, thing is.. I never asked for advice shooting my first wedding. I asked for advice on the gear I should buy.

 

[robbins.photo]

I understand, thing is.. I never asked for advice shooting my first wedding. I asked for advice on the gear I should buy.

Ok, so lets say you went and asked a guy who spent half his lifetime jumping out of airplanes and said, hey, I've never parachuted before and I need to know what sort of parachute I need to buy.

Do you think he's doing you some huge favor by not mentioning that it might not be a bad idea to take some classes, some basic instruction on what a backup chute is and how to deploy it if you primary gets fouled, etc - or do you really think he's being rude unless all he tells you is the brand name of what chute you should order?

I mean to be fair you really didn't divulge that your friend couldn't afford a professional photographer from the outset. A lot of the people who have shot weddings here are well aware of the fact that weddings are a very emotionally charged event, one that is (well at least should be) a once in a lifetime deal and there are no do overs. The pressure on everyone involved for everything to be absolutely perfect can be pretty intense.

This is the sort of thing that can blow up in your face pretty easily - friendships have been lost over far less. A lot of the folks here were trying to relay some of that too you, some of the pitfalls involved. You may not have cared for the presentation, but they were not trying to run you down, they were honestly trying to help.

Ok, that having been said, you might want to seriously reconsider shooting this wedding - just based on the fact that if the responses you received in this forum were enough to cause this much emotional trauma, then I have to say I really wouldn't recommend involving yourself in an event as stressful as a wedding shoot. Just my two cents worth of course, take it for what it's worth.

 

[SamiJoSchwirtz]

Ok, so lets say you went and asked a guy who spent half his lifetime jumping out of airplanes and said, hey, I've never parachuted before and I need to know what sort of parachute I need to buy. Do you think he's doing you some huge favor by not mentioning that it might not be a bad idea to take some classes, some basic instruction on what a backup chute is and how to deploy it if you primary gets fouled, etc - or do you really think he's being rude unless all he tells you is the brand name of what chute you should order? I mean to be fair you really didn't divulge that your friend couldn't afford a professional photographer from the outset. A lot of the people who have shot weddings here are well aware of the fact that weddings are a very emotionally charged event, one that is (well at least should be) a once in a lifetime deal and there are no do overs. The pressure on everyone involved for everything to be absolutely perfect can be pretty intense. This is the sort of thing that can blow up in your face pretty easily - friendships have been lost over far less. A lot of the folks here were trying to relay some of that too you, some of the pitfalls involved. You may not have cared for the presentation, but they were not trying to run you down, they were honestly trying to help. Ok, that having been said, you might want to seriously reconsider shooting this wedding - just based on the fact that if the responses you received in this forum were enough to cause this much emotional trauma, then I have to say I really wouldn't recommend involving yourself in an event as stressful as a wedding shoot. Just my two cents worth of course, take it for what it's worth.

You have a point except for my life isn't on the lines. Like I said, everyone starts somewhere. 😊

 

[robbins.photo]

You have a point except for my life isn't on the lines. Like I said, everyone starts somewhere. 

Your life isn't on the lines.. hmm.. Think I heard that expression from a guy once before.. sadly I think he was run over by a bus right after he said it. Lol. In all seriousness though, it's your life and certainly you can do whatever makes you happy, that's not my call or even really any of my business. I'm just suggesting that if you are that easily bent out of shape by a getting a couple of answers you didn't care for on an internet message forum, then something as stressful as shooting a wedding where your dealing with people face to face that are under far more stress might not be the best choice in career paths.

 

[TCampbell]

You have a point except for my life isn't on the lines. Like I said, everyone starts somewhere. 

I think that, as I read back through the thread, most people did offer the lens advice you were seeking. But they also offered the opinion on the first-time-wedding-shooter experience.

Indeed everyone does start somewhere. But "somewhere" could be by being an assistant or second shooter for another photographer. I'll offer an example.

I don't do weddings anymore, but I used to. I worked for a studio starting as an apprentice when I was 15. I've done somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 weddings (I never kept careful count... but as I reflect back on the years I realize the number is very close to 500.) When you do that many weddings you get experience on your side. My boss was also professionally trained. He didn't plunge in either but worked as an assistant to other photographer's before him ... back when he was much younger -- just as he was now showing me the ropes back when I was younger.

We knew the flow of the wedding. We knew the repertoire of shots that needed to be captured. We knew the best techniques to capture each of those shots. But we also always anticipated (based on knowing the flow of the event) which shot was coming next and what settings would be best for taking that type of shot. Those settings were dialed into the camera even before we approached the subject.

For example... suppose it's time for the bridal party to begin the dance. We'll need to photograph the bride & groom dance as well as each of the couples in the party as they are introduced.

What's going through my mind at this moment is:

• I'm planning to take a half-shot (waist up) of the couple dancing closely.
• I'll be standing about 6' away when I take the shot.
• The lights will be dim and I'll need flash.
• Due to light fall-off I don't want a severely underexposed background so I'll want to set a shutter speed which "drags the shutter" to collect more ambient light. This may put me down in the 1/50th second speed (or somewhere near that).
• A slow shutter has a strong potential for motion blur and I don't want that... SO...
• I'll approach each couple and gently tap their hands (which they're holding as they dance close) and guide them to face the camera ... but ALSO I'll ask them to pause and hold for just a moment while I take the shot.
• I'll thank them and move on to the next couple.

This isn't all of it... I may or may not be able to "bounce" the flash... that depends on if the ceiling is white and the ceiling height. If my flash is manual instead of TTL then I'll need to vary the aperture to control the light from the flash. With my equipment, I'd pre-focus the camera to 6' and set the aperture to f/16 for that distance.

This technique results in beautiful blur-free shots with very nice balanced lighting, a well-focused subject and pleasant background. The technique provides me with consistent results. That consistency is key (especially when I'm shooting film and I can't review the shot after taking it. I have to be able to bank on the fact that my technique worked and I won't be in for any unpleasant surprises.)

Now here's my point... I wish I could say I came up with this and take credit for it. But I didn't. I know to do this, because I didn't jump in and start shooting weddings hoping for the best. I apprenticed with a professional photographer starting at a young age. I didn't hold the camera... t hauled the gear, held and moved the lights, reloaded the film magazines, etc. But most importantly... I watched and learned from my boss. He didn't always have time to explain what he was doing. Often when he was done and we were driving from the wedding to the reception ... or just taking a break at the reception... he'd explain what he was doing and why.

Consequently, I'm not a nervous wreck when shooting a wedding because I've been well-trained to know what to expect and always anticipate what should be coming up next, what to dial-in as my exposure pre-sets (sure... I might need to adjust, but when you've done hundreds of weddings you get pretty good at anticipating what works best), and what techniques work best to capture the shot. These techniques get "burned into your brain" like muscle-memory. These photographers follow them almost instinctively. (This is why you want to pay $3000 for a photographer instead of $300. The expensive photographer with the impressive portfolio is going to get consistent results. The $300 photographer isn't relying on their wedding photography business in order to eat. The $3000 photographer is.)

There's a lot more. I just used one example (capturing bridal party dance photos). Someone who has never shot a wedding before is more likely to just take the photos and let the camera figure it out. They "wing it". More than the likely, the resulting photos will look like they decided to "wing it".

You may, and probably will, shoot your friend's wedding anyway. But it's not that everyone here is just trying to be a "Negative Nancy" about what may happen. The collective observational experience that so many of us here tend to witness is that the results from the "first wedding" photography tends to come in far below the initial expectations of the bride and the friend shooting the wedding. THEN it becomes a "I wish I had that known that." and "I wish I had done ___ when getting this shot." Then the "hindsight is 20/20". Sometimes this results in hard feelings... even from people who were good friends. It's an outcome that happens surprisingly (and unfortunately) often.

 

[Light Guru]

You have a point except for my life isn't on the lines. Like I said, everyone starts somewhere.

You physical life is not on the line but your relationship with a lifelong close friend just might be. I'll take a life long friend over "starting somewhere"
Even if I had been photographing weddings for 20 years I would still not be the photographer for a family member or friend. Accidents happen mistakes are made I would not want to risk the relationship.

 

[SamiJoSchwirtz]

I think that, as I read back through the thread, most people did offer the lens advice you were seeking. But they also offered the opinion on the first-time-wedding-shooter experience. Indeed everyone does start somewhere. But "somewhere" could be by being an assistant or second shooter for another photographer. I'll offer an example. I don't do weddings anymore, but I used to. I worked for a studio starting as an apprentice when I was 15. I've done somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 weddings (I never kept careful count... but as I reflect back on the years I realize the number is very close to 500.) When you do that many weddings you get experience on your side. My boss was also professionally trained. He didn't plunge in either but worked as an assistant to other photographer's before him ... back when he was much younger -- just as he was now showing me the ropes back when I was younger. We knew the flow of the wedding. We knew the repertoire of shots that needed to be captured. We knew the best techniques to capture each of those shots. But we also always anticipated (based on knowing the flow of the event) which shot was coming next and what settings would be best for taking that type of shot. Those settings were dialed into the camera even before we approached the subject. For example... suppose it's time for the bridal party to begin the dance. We'll need to photograph the bride & groom dance as well as each of the couples in the party as they are introduced. What's going through my mind at this moment is: [*]I'm planning to take a half-shot (waist up) of the couple dancing closely. [*]I'll be standing about 6' away when I take the shot. [*]The lights will be dim and I'll need flash. [*]Due to light fall-off I don't want a severely underexposed background so I'll want to set a shutter speed which "drags the shutter" to collect more ambient light. This may put me down in the 1/50th second speed (or somewhere near that). [*]A slow shutter has a strong potential for motion blur and I don't want that... SO... [*]I'll approach each couple and gently tap their hands (which they're holding as they dance close) and guide them to face the camera ... but ALSO I'll ask them to pause and hold for just a moment while I take the shot. [*]I'll thank them and move on to the next couple. This isn't all of it... I may or may not be able to "bounce" the flash... that depends on if the ceiling is white and the ceiling height. If my flash is manual instead of TTL then I'll need to vary the aperture to control the light from the flash. With my equipment, I'd pre-focus the camera to 6' and set the aperture to f/16 for that distance. This technique results in beautiful blur-free shots with very nice balanced lighting, a well-focused subject and pleasant background. The technique provides me with consistent results. That consistency is key (especially when I'm shooting film and I can't review the shot after taking it. I have to be able to bank on the fact that my technique worked and I won't be in for any unpleasant surprises.) Now here's my point... I wish I could say I came up with this and take credit for it. But I didn't. I know to do this, because I didn't jump in and start shooting weddings hoping for the best. I apprenticed with a professional photographer starting at a young age. I didn't hold the camera... t hauled the gear, held and moved the lights, reloaded the film magazines, etc. But most importantly... I watched and learned from my boss. He didn't always have time to explain what he was doing. Often when he was done and we were driving from the wedding to the reception ... or just taking a break at the reception... he'd explain what he was doing and why. Consequently, I'm not a nervous wreck when shooting a wedding because I've been well-trained to know what to expect and always anticipate what should be coming up next, what to dial-in as my exposure pre-sets (sure... I might need to adjust, but when you've done hundreds of weddings you get pretty good at anticipating what works best), and what techniques work best to capture the shot. These techniques get "burned into your brain" like muscle-memory. These photographers follow them almost instinctively. (This is why you want to pay $3000 for a photographer instead of $300. The expensive photographer with the impressive portfolio is going to get consistent results. The $300 photographer isn't relying on their wedding photography business in order to eat. The $3000 photographer is.) There's a lot more. I just used one example (capturing bridal party dance photos). Someone who has never shot a wedding before is more likely to just take the photos and let the camera figure it out. They "wing it". More than the likely, the resulting photos will look like they decided to "wing it". You may, and probably will, shoot your friend's wedding anyway. But it's not that everyone here is just trying to be a "Negative Nancy" about what may happen. The collective observational experience that so many of us here tend to witness is that the results from the "first wedding" photography tends to come in far below the initial expectations of the bride and the friend shooting the wedding. THEN it becomes a "I wish I had that known that." and "I wish I had done ___ when getting this shot." Then the "hindsight is 20/20". Sometimes this results in hard feelings... even from people who were good friends. It's an outcome that happens surprisingly (and unfortunately) often.

Oh I definitely wouldn't be doing it alone... I should have read more thoroughly. That is my mistake.

 

[SamiJoSchwirtz]

I think that, as I read back through the thread, most people did offer the lens advice you were seeking. But they also offered the opinion on the first-time-wedding-shooter experience. Indeed everyone does start somewhere. But "somewhere" could be by being an assistant or second shooter for another photographer. I'll offer an example. I don't do weddings anymore, but I used to. I worked for a studio starting as an apprentice when I was 15. I've done somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 weddings (I never kept careful count... but as I reflect back on the years I realize the number is very close to 500.) When you do that many weddings you get experience on your side. My boss was also professionally trained. He didn't plunge in either but worked as an assistant to other photographer's before him ... back when he was much younger -- just as he was now showing me the ropes back when I was younger. We knew the flow of the wedding. We knew the repertoire of shots that needed to be captured. We knew the best techniques to capture each of those shots. But we also always anticipated (based on knowing the flow of the event) which shot was coming next and what settings would be best for taking that type of shot. Those settings were dialed into the camera even before we approached the subject. For example... suppose it's time for the bridal party to begin the dance. We'll need to photograph the bride & groom dance as well as each of the couples in the party as they are introduced. What's going through my mind at this moment is: [*]I'm planning to take a half-shot (waist up) of the couple dancing closely. [*]I'll be standing about 6' away when I take the shot. [*]The lights will be dim and I'll need flash. [*]Due to light fall-off I don't want a severely underexposed background so I'll want to set a shutter speed which "drags the shutter" to collect more ambient light. This may put me down in the 1/50th second speed (or somewhere near that). [*]A slow shutter has a strong potential for motion blur and I don't want that... SO... [*]I'll approach each couple and gently tap their hands (which they're holding as they dance close) and guide them to face the camera ... but ALSO I'll ask them to pause and hold for just a moment while I take the shot. [*]I'll thank them and move on to the next couple. This isn't all of it... I may or may not be able to "bounce" the flash... that depends on if the ceiling is white and the ceiling height. If my flash is manual instead of TTL then I'll need to vary the aperture to control the light from the flash. With my equipment, I'd pre-focus the camera to 6' and set the aperture to f/16 for that distance. This technique results in beautiful blur-free shots with very nice balanced lighting, a well-focused subject and pleasant background. The technique provides me with consistent results. That consistency is key (especially when I'm shooting film and I can't review the shot after taking it. I have to be able to bank on the fact that my technique worked and I won't be in for any unpleasant surprises.) Now here's my point... I wish I could say I came up with this and take credit for it. But I didn't. I know to do this, because I didn't jump in and start shooting weddings hoping for the best. I apprenticed with a professional photographer starting at a young age. I didn't hold the camera... t hauled the gear, held and moved the lights, reloaded the film magazines, etc. But most importantly... I watched and learned from my boss. He didn't always have time to explain what he was doing. Often when he was done and we were driving from the wedding to the reception ... or just taking a break at the reception... he'd explain what he was doing and why. Consequently, I'm not a nervous wreck when shooting a wedding because I've been well-trained to know what to expect and always anticipate what should be coming up next, what to dial-in as my exposure pre-sets (sure... I might need to adjust, but when you've done hundreds of weddings you get pretty good at anticipating what works best), and what techniques work best to capture the shot. These techniques get "burned into your brain" like muscle-memory. These photographers follow them almost instinctively. (This is why you want to pay $3000 for a photographer instead of $300. The expensive photographer with the impressive portfolio is going to get consistent results. The $300 photographer isn't relying on their wedding photography business in order to eat. The $3000 photographer is.) There's a lot more. I just used one example (capturing bridal party dance photos). Someone who has never shot a wedding before is more likely to just take the photos and let the camera figure it out. They "wing it". More than the likely, the resulting photos will look like they decided to "wing it". You may, and probably will, shoot your friend's wedding anyway. But it's not that everyone here is just trying to be a "Negative Nancy" about what may happen. The collective observational experience that so many of us here tend to witness is that the results from the "first wedding" photography tends to come in far below the initial expectations of the bride and the friend shooting the wedding. THEN it becomes a "I wish I had that known that." and "I wish I had done ___ when getting this shot." Then the "hindsight is 20/20". Sometimes this results in hard feelings... even from people who were good friends. It's an outcome that happens surprisingly (and unfortunately) often.

Also, I should thank you for all of the helpful advice. I guess I should have clarified.. Again that was my mistake.

 

[pixmedic]

Don't let shooting for friends totally scare you. We have shot engagements and weddings for two of our close friends and things went very well. We helped out friends, they got good wedding pictures, and everyone was happy.

 

[SamiJoSchwirtz]

Don't let shooting for friends totally scare you. We have shot engagements and weddings for two of our close friends and things went very well. We helped out friends, they got good wedding pictures, and everyone was happy.

thanks pixmedic!

 

[studio460]

I shot my first wedding only a few months ago, and am about to shoot my second in a couple weeks. Here's the lenses I used:

• AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/4.0G VR on a flash-fired body (used for general coverage: processional, first dance, cake, etc.).
• Sigma 35mm f/1.4 (used for available-light wide shots during the ceremony, and for the couple's full-length formals).
• AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G (used for available-light close-ups during the ceremony).
• Sigma 150mm f/2.8 OS (used for tight headshots in the bride's ready-room).

So, basically, I had an "all-purpose" short-zoom on a flash-fired body, the 24-120mm (which can just as easily be substituted with a 24-70mm f/2.8). My on-camera flash was typically bounced into an assistant-held foldable reflector (achieved by merely rotating the flash head to the side, or backwards). Note that my 24-120mm probably shot more than 80% of the images.

Although I also brought a 70-200mm f/2.8, I didn't use it since I was able to get fairly close to the altar, and used my 35mm f/1.4 and 85mm f/1.4 primes instead (I had multiple FX bodies--one prime on each for the ceremony). That said, I also brought quite of bit of lighting gear. In addition to my camera-mounted SB-800 (plus, multiple back-up Speedlights), I also had three AC monolights, all powered by AC inverters for both speed and mobility (this also alleviates the problem of people tripping over long AC cables, or wasting time taping them down). I triggered everything using PocketWizard TT1/TT5 transceivers.

So, as far as lenses go, basically, a good short-zoom, a couple of fast primes for when you're not allowed to use strobes (e.g., the ceremony), a 70-200mm f/2.8 in case you're too far from the altar, and perhaps an ultra-wide or rectangular fisheye for "special' venue shots (kind of a one-trick-pony, but can add "breadth" to your coverage). Also, maybe a macro lens for super-tight ring shots, etc.