Why are we fighting so hard to impress each other?

[enzodm]

There is a kind of portrait called "environmental portrait", where you portrait the person and his/her own environment. In such a kind you surely may use background as an additional subject (~). But at that point you need to treat it with the dignity of a subject.
Also street photography has often more components inside than the main subject only.
Avoiding cluttered background is just a guideline, meaning that you should decide what there is in your picture and how.
Most of "distracting background" pictures here have just a random background - sort of background noise, more than added meaning.

It could be useful to see some of the examples you speak of, in order to discuss them. Just post links.

 

[nmoody]

I think deep down we all want to have our pictures to be loved and become known for them. My purpose here is to learn photography from others and at some point give back to the forum. Though my pictures currently are not to the caliber that I want, they will be someday. I love all these threads with visually stunning pictures and the hash but comical users that make them.

 

[GnipGnop]

Who do you shoot for? Yourself, or an audience? Most of the time, you can only pick one.

 

[blackrose89]

Who do you shoot for? Yourself, or an audience? Most of the time, you can only pick one.

My question more is who should be your selected audience.

 

[Sonoma]

If you like your work, other people like it and it could possibly make money who gives a **** what strangers on the internet have to say?

So, if this statement is accurate, why do you post here?
Seems ludicrous!

 

[sm4him]

You're right about one thing: at the end of the day, *I* have to decide whether I like the photography I am producing. If I think what I'm doing is good enough, then frankly, I wouldn't have much use for TPF (well, yes, I would. You regulars are a highly entertaining bunch, and I feel like family at this point).

I am not here to impress ANYone...if that were my goal, I'd have to say that so far, I've been a dismal failure at achieving it!

I came to TPF because I KNOW that, while my friends, family and co-workers have loved my photos, I needed to really improve my skills if *I* wanted to be satisfied with what I was producing.

For example, I recently posted a set of night photos of my workplace for C&C? My boss absolutely LOVED them; so why did I post them? So you all could be suitably impressed? NO. I posted them because *I* knew that they could be improved, if only I knew HOW to improve them. And I knew I would probably get humbled and "put in my place" for thinking they were even reasonably decent, lol.

Sure enough, some hated them...boring subject, boring composition, etc. Eh, okay, whatever. The subject wasn't my choice; it was a photo I was trying to produce for a specific purpose.

But some posted some really helpful information...in particular, mannaheim, who linked to a thread he's written about doing night photos, offered some advice, and also offered to give me additional pointers as I need them. I have learned SO much from his comments, and can't wait for the next nice night when I can go out and do a re-shoot....even though my boss couldn't care less because she already loves the photo! But I don't WANT to produce what is "good enough" for my boss, or my family or even for clients...I want to produce what is good enough for ME.

Really, so many regulars on here have really helped me improve, already. MTVision, MLeek, Bitter, on and on....I don't want to list too many, because I'll miss some who have been helpful for sure! Even some who have made "rude," harsh remarks have been helpful, because the essence of what they're saying is true.

I doubt ANY of the people who have commented on the few photos I've put up for C&C have been impressed. No, I don't just doubt it, I'm sure of it. I'm equally sure that most of them find my work on par with a rank amateur (well, at least, I *hope* they think I'm at least up to *that* level, lol). But I'm not trying to IMPRESS them, I'm trying to LEARN.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to put my soapbox away and go work on my photography.

 

[blackrose89]

I think deep down we all want to have our pictures to be loved and become known for them. My purpose here is to learn photography from others and at some point give back to the forum. Though my pictures currently are not to the caliber that I want, they will be someday. I love all these threads with visually stunning pictures and the hash but comical users that make them.

Yep same here. I will use a thread I had with Bitter as an example. I had a scenery photo with deers, chairs etc. I started getting a bunch of "subjective" CC and started way overediting it and ruining the photo because people were telling me how I should feel about the subjective elements. Assuming these people knew more I followed what they said. Until Bitter came along and said WTF are you doing? It's a good photo and YOUR instinct was correct. So who should we follow with these SUBJECTIVE matters?

 

[zcar21]

the answer should be simple the audience, otherwise why would you show your picture to other people and expect them to like it?

 

[Dao]

.... Why do people put so much emphasis on impressing fellow photographers when it doesn't seem to be a requirment in the actual world? I've been spending a lot of time observing magazines, calenders, posters for clothing in lines in malls and it seems no one else in the world really cares about all of the boundaries we have set for ourselves here. I'm not talking about exposure, focus, weight balance which are technical issues. I'm talking about all of the subjective areas like. One in particular nitpick I see a lot is "distracting" background. I've been looking through a lot of resources as I mentioned earlier, and they have a lot of so-called "distracting" elements scattered all through the background. ....

I think sometimes we just need to learn the fundamental stuff first before we deviate from them.

We all learn 1 + 1 = 2 when we were little. Once we know the basic, we can go from there (and learn more and more)

Of course, there are times that 1 + 1 is not equal 2 (deviation) . For example, when you add 1 pile of shxt to another pile of shxt, you 1 pile of big shxt.

 

[blackrose89]

If you like your work, other people like it and it could possibly make money who gives a **** what strangers on the internet have to say?

So, if this statement is accurate, why do you post here? Seems ludicrous!

Ummm you clearly didn't read the entire post. I said why I did. I said there ARE elements that ARE important for criticisms and am merely talking about the subjective parts.

 

[The_Traveler]

Isn't it more important to reach people in your community rather then the people on here?

ANSWER #2

No

Good photos are understandable by everyone, not just the cognoscenti and you might as well do things right if you know how.

 

[The_Traveler]

Isn't it more important to reach people in your community rather then the people on here?

ANSWER #3

No

In general the people in your community will be morons (photographically speaking) and eventually one of them will wake up and realize that your appealing-to-the-common-man photos are crap and they will talk about it.

Always do your best by anyone's standards.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Regardless of how other members try to play it down, a lot of people are secretly pretentious, I believe. That's why there's always so much drama on here.

Don't forget those who are smug.

I think it's because photography is soooooo much more subjective than many other areas, and that causes people to be insecure about their abilities.

What other areas?
I have found it to the same in every area of art I have worked in and studied.

It is superiority under a façade of humbleness and self-deprecation. Those are just my observations. Maybe I just hang out with the wrong people.

If we bring this back to the forum, you have a ton of people pretending they know a lot about art, but don't. We repeatedly hear their opinions on how stuff doesn't really matter. But what point, what foundation are they arguing from?

 

[blackrose89]

.... Why do people put so much emphasis on impressing fellow photographers when it doesn't seem to be a requirment in the actual world? I've been spending a lot of time observing magazines, calenders, posters for clothing in lines in malls and it seems no one else in the world really cares about all of the boundaries we have set for ourselves here. I'm not talking about exposure, focus, weight balance which are technical issues. I'm talking about all of the subjective areas like. One in particular nitpick I see a lot is "distracting" background. I've been looking through a lot of resources as I mentioned earlier, and they have a lot of so-called "distracting" elements scattered all through the background. ....

I think sometimes we just need to learn the fundamental stuff first before we deviate from them.We all learn 1 + 1 = 2 when we were little. Once we know the basic, we can go from there (and learn more and more) ( Of course, there are times that 1 + 1 is not equal 2. For example, when you add 1 pile of shxt to another pile of shxt, you 1 pile of big shxt)

Umm if you read the post I did state that the fundelmental stuff was important. I am only speaking of the subjective elements.

 

[MLeeK]

I'm probably going to get blasted for what I am about to say... but oh well.

Why do people put so much emphasis on impressing fellow photographers when it doesn't seem to be a requirment in the actual world? I've been spending a lot of time observing magazines, calenders, posters for clothing in lines in malls and it seems no one else in the world really cares about all of the boundaries we have set for ourselves here. I'm not talking about exposure, focus, weight balance which are technical issues. I'm talking about all of the subjective areas like. One in particular nitpick I see a lot is "distracting" background. I've been looking through a lot of resources as I mentioned earlier, and they have a lot of so-called "distracting" elements scattered all through the background.

I've been seeing people say on here "Just because it makes money and general people will like it, doesn't mean it's good or other photographers will like it." Soooo it doesn't matter if it's reaching a lot of people or you're making money, the important thing is that the, maybe, 40 people on here don't approve? It's like "pssh, forget all of the people making money and the people who like you're work, it's only a real work if it's validated by the people on this site, these are the ones who REALLY matter."

Again, I understand correcting technical errors such focus, exposure, weight balance etc. I have been a sketch artist for a long time now, so I understand the importance of improving on a technical level, but everything else just seems like they're setting imaginary boundaries that don't actually exist in the real world. Isn't it more important to reach people in your community rather then the people on here?

If you like your work, other people like it and it could possibly make money who gives a **** what strangers on the internet have to say?

You really need to read through the post. I didn't say there is NO point in learning. I even said there are elements that you NEED to listen to criticisms. I specified I am merely taking about the subjective elements. I never one said CC is useless.More of what I'm saying is how much should we take in on the SUBJECTIVE side of things.

This whole thing is completely contradictory. It looks a bit like I said something stupid, but that's not what I really said...

RARELY do you see anyone here posting for the impressive quality. We are all trying to learn something or help someone learn. There are a few people here who I can learn from and that is the only reason I'd post anything and it's the same for the "professional level" members here. The new photographers are posting not to have someone blown away-those ones come in, find out they're not the shiz-nit and leave. The ones who stay and post their images here are doing it to LEARN what the don't know. Sure as hell not to impress anyone. We all know it takes a WHOLE LOT to impress most of us.
Although I will mention that I see you posting the "raise the anty" posts that seem to be looking for the impressive factor. So maybe that's where this comes from?
We see great photography every day and appreciate it for that. We also look at that great photo and think about what makes it great, how the photographer created it and how we could do it or do it differently.
So, who is here to IMPRESS anyone except maybe Vandal who got called out for his imperfections?