It's all in the eye of the beholder

[Garbz]

Perhaps people don't want other random people to have photographs of themselves or their children for who knows what reason. Why do you need photos of someone else's children? If you want to take photos of children, go have your own children and take all the photos you want.

That entire comment is ********. Photographers bark about their rights WHEN their rights are taken away, not the other way around. We don't take photos of people to make the assumption that their mothers think evil of us. The mothers just hide their children when they see us with a camera regardless if we're with our girlfriends or trying to take a picture of a bird in the tree.

If you don't believe that then maybe you should take a camera out and just walk past a local park one day. I have news for you if you want privacy stay in your home. You forfeit the right to privacy when you walk in a public place.

Oh and finally who cares if someone has a photo of you. Unless you're from a remote tribe in Mexico it's not like your camera can steal your soul or something. Again if you don't want a photo taken of you, ever, then stay at home. The whole "protect the children" debate got very old very quickly (again cameras don't steal your soul) just like the whole terrorism thing got old when mum was questioned why she needed 100kg of fertiliser (we have a big garden).

The topic isn't exclusively about photographers rights, it's about photographers prejudice.

 

[abraxas]

That entire comment is ********.
...

:thumbup:

 

[King Mango]

I flew out of Houston/Hobby last month and experienced a similar situation.
This happened to be the last day of a HUGE HUGE volleyball tournament and there were literally thousands of people getting tickets and boarding passes last minute. 95 per cent of them were college-aged girls in their late teens with tight shorts and tight shirts on straight from their elimination games. The lines looked a whole day long, and my friend had just dropped me off from Galveston and I thought I was gonna be stuck overnight. I took out my camera and put it on motion picture mode, held it up as high as I could and simply scanned from the people ahead of me, up to the front of the line. As I was putting my camera back in my bag I happened to notice the short burly dad behind me glaring at me. I held eye contact with him for several seconds and came to the conclusion that he must have thought I was only filming to see the girls. Having pictures of sexy little teenagers hadn't even entered my mind otherwise I suppose I wouldn't have settled for an underexposed seven second 320x240 15 fps mov file.
I can't help but wonder; Was he struggling somewhere inside to suppress something? Now I'm single, and have no children. I have an active social life, and that scene made me wish I was a kid again but truly I had no conflict with that feeling. Maybe he was wishing more and putting it off on me. Isn't there some sort of dime store psychology that says we only fear what he hide in our hearts?
I'm actually kind of angry now for feeling put off by it. There were some times that I wanted to get the camera out, but I was afraid of people being afraid of me! There would have been some really great shots of kids in the prime of their life out on the road meeting new people, saying goodbye to friends and new romances etc...

 

[Iron Flatline]

Queen's Day is the biggest street festival in the Netherlands. All of Holland celebrates outside, and esp. Amsterdam becomes one big party. The Vondelpark is a refuge from some of the more drunken stupidity of the tourist area. It's where families set up baked-good stands, used toy stores, and little performances. A group of 12 -14 year old girls were doing ballet moves and American-style cheerleading stunts all afternoon long, wearing shorts and tights. Huge crowds were watching them, many of them with cameras and camcorders. The only ones making uncomfortable comments and compensatory jokes were the Americans. As a photographer and member of several forums, I was acutely aware of that aspect. I'm not saying that the threat is any less (or worse) in the US or Europe, but it seems that the US is the most advanced in its general atmosphere of fear and loathing in regards to such matters.

 

[Iron Flatline]

There are people in society - and members of this photographic community - that would question why this blogger collected these images, whether he should be allowed to display them, and casually besmirch his reputation without a second thought...

Dark Roasted Blend: Kids

Dark Roasted Blend: Kids Pt 2

CAREFUL, might not be SAFE FOR WORK!!!!

Child nudity, girls in bath tubs, kids kissing, and other highly charged content.

...and kids with guns, but we all know guns are o.k. and non-controversial.

 

[Socrates]

Most are, but only the "big" ones really enforce the rules here. It is up to the individual cemetery , and their policies. My future son-in-laws brother is one of the big guns at the largest cemetery here, and he got me a paper on the rules of conduct in the cemetery. No photography, or gravestone etchings. You can get written permission to photograph there tho. Im glad I have an "in"

If private property, I don't see where you have a leg to stand on.

 

[Photoguynorth]

Interestingly that exact comment could be made about people being suspicious of you. Is it OK to take rights away from parents. but not photographers? Whether you agree or disagree with the threat being real, you expect parents to forfeit their right to control when and where pictures of their kids are taken, but scream loudly when someones infringes on your right to take those pictures. As always, we feel that what impacts US is more important and overrides what anyone else thinks impacts them. Those 'evil' parents are not trying to restrict your right to do anything but take pictures of their children, without knowing anything about how they will be used. My kids are old enough now that it is a non-issue, but when they were smaller and vulnerable, I was careful with them too. That does not mean I assumed anything about a particular photographers intentions - it means without knowing, I was cautious. If that impacted negatively on anyones quality of life, I never knew or cared. And you can disagree all you want on the accuracy of my concerns - but I can also disagree with your right to override them.
FWIW - I have a relative who was targeted on the internet by a known sex-offender (long after I established my own rules). It was not photography related, but you are hiding your head in the sand if you think these things are rare.

I have news for you if you want privacy stay in your home. You forfeit the right to privacy when you walk in a public place.

 

[Rick Waldroup]

I believe that it's incorrect to suggest that photographers are being singled out. Right or wrong, it's a new world and everyone is impacted. When I flew commercially the first time, the airline gave out free cigarettes and the cockpit didn't even have a door! Now, they'll lock you up if you light a cigarette and you need to prove your innocence before you can so much as set foot in the airport.

Socs, once again, you have proven the point that is so painfully obvious to most of us- you simply do not get out much. Also, as has been pointed out by others, I don't think you even own a camera.

The little town I live in, which is built around a lake, just finished work on a new recreational and beach area. I went down there the other day to shoot and some guy walked up to me and wanted to know why I was taking photos of children on the beach. I told him, because they were there and that it made for a nice shot. He gave me a hard look, and finally, being tired of all this constant bull****, I told him that if he had a problem to call a cop. Either that, or get lost. He left.

I am sick of all the whacked out weirdos who fear a camera. I used to be very polite and try to explain what I am doing. After putting up with this nonsense for several years now, I am not near as nice and polite as I used to be.

 

[usayit]

Interestingly that exact comment could be made about people being suspicious of you. Is it OK to take rights away from parents. but not photographers?

What rights????? Please state the law (and source) that specifically states that a child has the right not to be photographed even in public... (Everything else in your post is B.S. if you cannot).

It is LEGAL to take photographs in any location or anyone (assuming there is no reasonable expectation of privacy). Therefore parents and children have NO rights when it comes to be photographed in a public location. You speak of "rights" so loosely with so many assumptions... in the case you bring up, the photographers have legal right and the parent/child have NO rights.

So to answer you question: "Is it OK to take rights away from parents. but not photographers?" The answer is YES. Photographers have legal right and the parents have NO rights to be taken.

Garbz statement is correct. If you want 100% privacy the only LEGAL thing you can do is stay in your home and not leave. EIther that or start covering you children head to toe because it is inappropriate for anyone to look at them much less take a photo.

First thing you need to understand when debating rights.... What you think is wrong/right has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with legal/illegal. In debates like these, all that counts are the laws on the book. If you don't agree with the laws, you are more than welcome to take actions to get them rewritten.



What a sad state we are living in when a simple photograph is treated as a severly as a physical act of aggression. At what point is it going to be inappropriate to even look at a child.... when even a mental picture is wrong... when we have to start walking around with blind folds or make children wear burkas.

 

[Miaow]

It is LEGAL to take photographs in any location or anyone (assuming there is no reasonable expectation of privacy). Therefore parents and children have NO rights when it comes to be photographed in a public location.

So to answer you question: "Is it OK to take rights away from parents. but not photographers?" The answer is YES. Photographers have legal right and the parents have NO rights to be taken.

The parent of a child IMO does have the right to say NO I dont want you to take a picture - It's just common courtesy, respecting privacy, that a photographer, if hearing a parent say that (or obvious looks of displeasure) should not take pictures of that child.

To turn the tables a little how would you like someone taking a pic of you if you didnt want it - Yes some people don't mind it I'm sure but I'm sure at some stage in life's everyday happenings most people don't want to be photographed sometimes.

 

[tineybabes]

well i have to agree with miaow, i think that parents should have the right to say no. Even when at kindergarten or school parents need to consent to photos being taken of their children.

 

[Socrates]

Socs, once again, you have proven the point that is so painfully obvious to most of us- you simply do not get out much. Also, as has been pointed out by others, I don't think you even own a camera.

The little town I live in, which is built around a lake, just finished work on a new recreational and beach area. I went down there the other day to shoot and some guy walked up to me and wanted to know why I was taking photos of children on the beach. I told him, because they were there and that it made for a nice shot. He gave me a hard look, and finally, being tired of all this constant bull****, I told him that if he had a problem to call a cop. Either that, or get lost. He left.

I am sick of all the whacked out weirdos who fear a camera. I used to be very polite and try to explain what I am doing. After putting up with this nonsense for several years now, I am not near as nice and polite as I used to be.

Have you ever been in an airplane?
Have you ever seen an airplane?

 

[Chiller]

​

 

[Rick Waldroup]

Have you ever been in an airplane?
Have you ever seen an airplane?

Maybe you have a picture of one?

I would love to see it.

 

[King Mango]

Well the biggest problem I have is that I can't say "because I'm a photographer." Because well, I still suck, and more importantly, I don't have a card.
I suppose some of us though could say that and hand out a card if confronted or we could possibly do something to appear more "professional..."
I don't know. There must be a way around it.