Well Then, Shall We Just Let the Blind Lead the Blind?

[ghache]

Always the same people stiring ****. If you feel that a questions has been asked 10001101 times and you dont feel like saying your bull**** over again, move along, dont post ****. you ****in people need to get a life. GET A LIFE, if nobody respond to them, they will search for answers.

Its funny that every thread on this forum that turns into a mess you always seems to see the same people arguing about the same bull****. this place is going to the ****ter because some assholes think they run this place. In fact, they do.

Tell us how you really feel

haha, I feel great!

 

[pgriz]

Tomasko, it's much easier today to Google/Yahoo/ASkJeeves etc. But by doing so, we begin to forget the sources of our information, just as urban dwellers forget that the nice pork chop they buy at the supermarket all tidily packaged and hermetically sealed, came from a live animal, was raised on a farm (maybe), was killed in a slaughterhouse, and was prepared by a butcher. The other day, I was talking to one of my daughters about a school assignment where she was expected to go to the source documents to gather information for a paper. She just didn't know where to start. Together, we worked out the type of source documents she would need, figured out where these were located, and then physically went to a number of places (libraries, museums) to find this information. When I was doing my chemical engineering degree, one of the first term class assignments was to work out from first principles the vapour pressure of a mixture of compounds. Each student was assigned a different mixture, so we couldn't cheat. It involved looking up the physical constants, densities, and other properties from published research papers (and the prof didn't say which ones), then developing the mathematical equations that would incorporate those properties to derive the vapour pressure. To complete the assignment, we had to then make the mixture in the lab and test the vapour pressure to verify whether our calculations were properly done. I think I remember that in a class of about 50 people, only three managed to get the assignment right. It ain't easy.

 

[Village Idiot]

Always the same people stiring ****. If you feel that a questions has been asked 10001101 times and you dont feel like saying your bull**** over again, move along, dont post ****. you ****in people need to get a life. GET A LIFE, if nobody respond to them, they will search for answers.

Its funny that every thread on this forum that turns into a mess you always seems to see the same people arguing about the same bull****. this place is going to the ****ter because some assholes think they run this place. In fact, they do.

If it makes you so mad that I speak my mind to inform a noob that they should do a little research first, why don't you go to another forum where everyone bows down to the noobs and services them with rainbows and unicorn farts so that you don't have to read my posts?

 

[Tomasko]

pgriz, I agree with one thing - today you don't need to know to do certain things manually. Many things are automatic.
HOWEVER, someone has to program those machines/websites etc, so they work exactly as we expect them to. And someone has to know how to use them. You're saying, that you had to know manually many things when you was doing your degree. What if I tell you, that today you need to know basically the same PLUS you need to know to work with a PC software? It isn't exactly easy either, because you can't be a chemist without any IT knowledge, which is HARD for many people, who would probably be great chemists otherwise. And this applies virtually to any job.
Yes, some people cheat during exams, some people cheat during their careers... But I don't think that's because of computers or because some electronic tools that can help us with our jobs. It's about their attitude, how they approach their jobs, their lives.

 

[tirediron]

I blame Canada.

Wanna step outside and say that again?

 

[Overread36]

I still stand that the people who complain at basic answers is a minority group.

I would however say that there are 2 main problems which can be addressed:

1) Telling someone to Read the ****ing Manual (RTFM) as a reply is neither polite nor terribly constructive. A frosty reply can certainly jar someone to advice even if its good advice.

2) People might argue back against advice - the problem is that I've noticed some who give advance and then are shocked if anyone should dare question said advice - even if said advice is totally correct. Fast after such an event the thread derails into personal attacks and before we know it we've 5 pages of fighting.


I don't think this is a "generation" thing, its an attitude thing and it crosses both sides from newbies to experienced people.

 

[Robin Usagani]

I blame Canada.

Wanna step outside and say that again?

Why? You want to do curling competition? LOL JK

 

[ghache]

Always the same people stiring ****. If you feel that a questions has been asked 10001101 times and you dont feel like saying your bull**** over again, move along, dont post ****. you ****in people need to get a life. GET A LIFE, if nobody respond to them, they will search for answers.

Its funny that every thread on this forum that turns into a mess you always seems to see the same people arguing about the same bull****. this place is going to the ****ter because some assholes think they run this place. In fact, they do.

If it makes you so mad that I speak my mind to inform a noob that they should do a little research first, why don't you go to another forum where everyone bows down to the noobs and services them with rainbows and unicorn farts so that you don't have to read my posts?

, Im not mad at you for telling someone to do a lil research. dont put words in my mouth....I just find it ****in funny how you peoples make stupid thread about how this place should be and ***** like craying babies. WHY YOU and the other ass clowns dont go somewhere else so you dont FEEL THE NEED of answereing the same bull**** over and over? 5 more new member is going to join today and ask about the same basic stuff without seaching ****. Just get over it people and dont look. dont reply, dont bother replying, its a ****in internet forum and why YOU dont you go to another forum ? you seems to have a problem with this place. LOL

 

[gsgary]

This is typical;

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ery/252187-new-lighting-where-do-i-start.html

I can't believe i got a seperate mention by the OP and i didn't even post in the thread above

 

[Derrel]

MY GENERATION: Take a copy of The Amateur Photographer's Handbook, a 568 page volume. Then hand-copy it, page by page, in longhand, over parts of two different years, filling the fountain pen with Skrip synthetic ink from a freaking 50cc glass jar every 10 pages or so. Draw the illustrations by hand. You ***will*** learn something. I can assure you that you will learn.

TODAY's YOUTH: Log on to Amazon, and download it to your freaking Kindle in 3 minutes, then skim through a couple of chapters.

 

[MissCream]

I blame Canada.

Wanna step outside and say that again?

Why? You want to do curling competition? LOL JK

Hey now!!

Schwetty I always wondered how you fit 3 children in your tiny import tuner, enlighten me please!

 

[tirediron]

1) Telling someone to Read the ****ing Manual (RTFM) as a reply is neither polite nor terribly constructive. A frosty reply can certainly jar someone to advice even if its good advice.

Gotta disagree with you there, your Moderatorship, sir: There are times when this is a valid and appropriate response. Questions such as, "How do I change the shutter-speed on my camera" or "What does "----" mean on my camera's LCD?"

2) People might argue back against advice ... I don't think this is a "generation" thing, its an attitude thing and it crosses both sides from newbies to experienced people.

There are lazy people in every generation, but part of the problem stems from the fact that, as far as I can tell, many of the more knowledgable and helpful posters on this board are old enough that their learning was done with books, manual typewriters and other such barbaric equipment. Generally, their first instinct is to try and find the information for themselves; think back to that eigth-grade science project. What did you do when told to write a report on volcanoes? You went to the bookshelf and grabbed the encyclopedia 'Va - Wi' and started reading. The "Internet Generation" has been taught to learn by going to the Internet and asking questions. The danger here is that you can't always rely on the source of the infromation (Hey we all know that Wikipedia is 100% accurate, don't we?).

 

[ghache]

MY GENERATION: Take a copy of The Amateur Photographer's Handbook, a 568 page volume. Then hand-copy it, page by page, in longhand, over parts of two different years, filling the fountain pen with Skrip synthetic ink from a freaking 50cc glass jar every 10 pages or so. Draw the illustrations by hand. You ***will*** learn something. I can assure you that you will learn.

TODAY's YOUTH: Log on to Amazon, and download it to your freaking Kindle in 3 minutes, then skim through a couple of chapters.

haha yeah so what? im so sorry for your Derrel the printer was not invented when you were a kid.

Having access to technologie doesnt make EVERYONE lazy. wow.

 

[tirediron]

I blame Canada.

Wanna step outside and say that again?

Why? You want to do curling competition? LOL JK

Lissen... my Prime Minister can out-drink your President any day of the week!!!!!

 

[subscuck]

I kind of avoided posting in this thread for any of a number of reasons, but mostly because I believe there is no solution. I've been a member of internet fora for a lot of years now, and I belong to a wide array of fora; photography, pastry, astronomy, Christmas decorating (yeah, so what?), even gardening. I see this everywhere. There will always be those that want people who have the knowledge to condense a book's worth of material into one or two easy to digest sentences. That just won't happen. I share the frustration of those who are are tired of seeing post after post of questions that have been answered dozens of times already. It seems sometimes that every new member thinks they have a new, never before asked question.

My own personal solution is to pick and choose who I respond to. Sometimes there's something about a newbies post that indicates they are willing to do a fair amount of work to get what they're after. I respond to them. I always let them know that they will have a far more positive experience here, and get the best help from the best people, if they can say "I've read such and such, and there's a couple of points I don't get. Can you explain?". In addition, people don't seem to understand that by doing your own research, not only does it answer your question, but it invariably answers the questions you didn't know you will have. There's great value in that, but unfortunately, not everyone is looking for value.

I'd also like to say that I feel this thread is cathartic. I've seen mass exits of the best a forum has to offer too many times. These "brain drains" always hurt the inexperienced. Instead of getting the best answers from the best people, they end up getting answers from people only a little further along the curve than themselves. So in this spirit, I'm glad Overread has chosen to engage in this debate, rather than simply lock the thread. Thank you. Sometimes people need to vent, and if that keeps the best of the best here, it's a worthwhile endeavor.

As far as some of the suggestions given, no offense, but I see them as unworkable. Requiring new members to read through a set of threads/stickies is like the end user agreements that you're required to "read". Most people simply scroll to the bottom and click "accept". I see the same result with this suggestion. There is no way that I know of to ensure the material has actually been read.

Maybe an automatically generated PM on your first log in would get more people's attention, but I really don't know about that either. Some people are going to want instant answers, others will be willing to do their own homework. I don't see that changing. What I do see happen on all fora, though, is those who do their own work usually end up being valuable members down the road. Those who don't usually disappear quickly.

It's also entirely possible a lot of newbs are reading this and will take their cue from it. One can hope, anyway.