Are most photographers snobs?

[Alpha]

One thing I'm really sick and tired of is the sheer laziness. I'm so tired of hearing the same stupid, lame excuses from people, like "I'm having trouble reading the manual" and "I don't learn well from books." Is it the bootstraps or the IQ above 70 that you're lacking? If you don't have the discipline, fortitude, and intelligence to go out and learn on your own and troubleshoot your own mistakes, then I honestly think you should lay down the camera.

 

[Yemme]

Why? Art business is Art business. Capital A Art is high falootin', big money Art and has everything to do with networking, promotion, celebrity, trends, cliques, etc... Little a art is part of the human condition, and goes on with or without money or fame.



Your complaint (if that's what it is?) is too vague. Who is being snobbish to you, and what are the circumstances? Photographers are people. Some people are jerks. Some people are jerks in certain situations. Some folks aren't jerks at all, but may seem like it in certain situations.

I find that when communicating through typed monologues (such as photo forums) lack of voice inflection, facial expressions, and hand motions can make the conversation seem much more terse than it would be in person.

If you are wondering why your local pros aren't interested in taking you on please consider that even a lowly hack such as myself gets a dozen emails/phone calls every month from people who want to be my assistant. Most can't even pass my are-you-gonna-get-an-interview interview. Being a decent photographer does not mean they are going to be a decent photographer's assistant. I'm not trying to be snobby, I'm just really busy, and I've already got all the assistance I need (and can afford) right now.

Check out your local photography groups. I'm sure there are some nasty ones, but every one I've participated in has been friendly and helpful. My local group has members ranging in skill level from pros to folks who bought their 1st camera yesterday. Sure, occasionally there's some good natured film vs. digital ribbing, or "my camera is bigger than your camera", but everyone knows that stuff is silly. We have fun, and learn from each other.

I just thought it would be different . Wow... I don't even know why I thought that. No one was rude to me. I’ve actually seen people in a group do the brush off, I’m up here your down there. I cannot be seen with you! I just couldn’t understand it when there work was sh*t. Just weird. I didn’t know about local photo groups might look into it. Thanks for your input.

 

[Yemme]

I don't think you understand. How does joining a "community" constitute work?

There's not very much good information here anyway. But you hadn't noticed that. That's why you stuck around.

Go read a book. Why do you need someone riding you to figure out why your photo doesn't look the way it should? Grow a pair already. Eyes, I mean.

In my eyes I think asking for help is a step in right direction. If I don’t understand something I ask. Being lazy to me is not even caring about the subject. People care to get feedback. I appreciate everyone’s input since I’ve been here. I’ve learned a lot from looking at images also, especially different angles. Not being afraid to view things differently. This site has its good point. I will take your advice though and grow a pair.

 

[Alpha]

All I'm saying is that, in my experience, people learn much faster the old fashioned way than they do trying to pick everything up from the internet. Forums are generally a bad learning tool. There are very few people here whose work I've seen markedly improve over the last few years.

 

[Alpha]

This place will never be an acceptable substitute for what one could, and I believe should, learn on their own.

 

[Robin]

The biggest types of photography snobs I have come across are those who think that the best photographers are always self taught and anyone who went to school for photography is never going to be as good as they are. I can't understand how anyone could possibly judge people by how they learned something rather than what type of work they can produce. It's a disgusting display of elitism and I can't even begin to describe my distain for this type of attitude.

 

[Alpha]

The biggest types of photography snobs I have come across are those who think that the best photographers are always self taught and anyone who went to school for photography is never going to be as good as they are. I can't understand how anyone could possibly judge people by how they learned something rather than what type of work they can produce. It's a disgusting display of elitism and I can't even begin to describe my distain for this type of attitude.

I don't know anyone who went to school for photography who believes that it made them a better photographer. The real value is using it to get your foot in the door at bigger and better opportunities.

 

[Robin]

I don't know anyone who went to school for photography who believes that it made them a better photographer. The real value is using it to get your foot in the door at bigger and better opportunities.

I was talking about the opposite: photographers who are self taught and did not go to school for photography. Some - not all - believe that anyone who DID go to school for photography is automatically someone with lesser talent. These are people who believe that photography is more about talent which can't be taught at school. They believe that people who go to school to learn photography do so because they lack talent and mistakenly think they will learn it in school.

I can go on. I've had many arguements who people who have the above beliefs. I myself went to a photography school and while I don't think I'm the most talented, some of my fellow students were undeniably talented and artistic.

But like you, I've never known anyone who went to photography school who thinks that self taught photographers are any less talented or skillful. But the opposite I have definitely met.

 

[Alpha]

While I don't believe that photography school is for no-talent hacks, I do think that if you don't have an eye going into it then you'll probably come out of it as a "blue collar photographer."

 

[Alex_B]

In most cases you only benefit from classes, if you bring something with you, be it enthusiasm, talent, whatever, ...

I am self-taught, and sometimes I encounter quite the opposite, people who think you can only bee good if you did learn everything at school.

I think the consent should be, that there are several ways of learning and growing. Everyone should do what is best for him/her, and in the end only the images produced should count.

 

[Robin]

While I don't believe that photography school is for no-talent hacks, I do think that if you don't have an eye going into it then you'll probably come out of it as a "blue collar photographer."

Probably but I did see students who showed up to photography school with no experience or education whatsoever and within 2 years wound up graduating top of their class and were some of the most skilled and talented photographers I've known. Maybe they were just lucky that they went in not knowing if they had the "eye" or not but found out that they did.

But anyway, it's the people who won't admitt that that even one person who went to a photography school could possibly be more talented than themselves. It's stereotyping at the most extreme and it's just ridiculous.

 

[Yemme]

This place will never be an acceptable substitute for what one could, and I believe should, learn on their own.

I would love to view your images. What's your website?

 

[Trenton Romulox]

Well, I do believe that there is such a thing as 'the eye'. And that right there plays a rather substantial role in the potential of a photographer. But whether or not someone reaches their own potential is a test of their work ethic, willingness to learn, and drive more than whether or not they possess 'the eye'. There are a fair number of people out there with 'the eye'. But not all that many people that put in the serious time to learn the techniques necessary to really take advantage of their gift. And there is a large number of people who don't necessarily have the most creative mind, and don't have 'the eye', but they take the time to improve, they read books, they study other photographer's work, and they take what those who have already put in the time say to heart; and that is what sets the great photographer apart from the good ones, not which ones have 'the eye'. If person A (has a good eye) and person B (doesn't have a great eye) put in the same amount of work, will person A end up with better work? Probably. But is that really what it's about, being better than everyone else? Or is it about reaching your own personal goals, putting in your best effort, and being able to say at the end of the day that you gave something your all, and that's more of a victory than most will ever achieve?

Now, I can sit here and make this more personal: I've been told I have a gift, or 'the eye' from a large number of people, some I knew, some I had never met, some I knew existed but hadn't really talked to. I've taken one class, read zero books, and didn't read my camera's manual. I got my first camera in January of 2007 and took it out of the box, had my dad put the kit lens on 'cause I didn't know how to, and put it in manual mode. Then I spent a considerable amount of time just shooting. Shooting this, shooting that. Until I learned what shutter speeds and apertures worked for what. I didn't even know what aperture was at first. I just figured it out by shooting. I didn't even know I had a light meter until that July. I learned how to expose simply by shooting in a considerable amount of lighting situations inside, outside, in the morning, at noon, at sunset, at night and figuring out what worked at what shutter speeds and apertures. Could I have learned faster by reading? Yes. I taught myself to operate a camera. I learned about advanced techniques by studying photographs. And then I executed them through trial and error. I feel fine about how I've progressed, I feel fine about how I learned, and I feel fine about learning through communities. Whether or not I have 'the eye', I'm not sure yet.

 

[Alpha]

I would love to view your images. What's your website?

What's that? You want my "credentials?" Let's not beat around the bush. You would not "love to view" my images. You'd love to find out if I also walk the walk. Perhaps you should just err on the side of caution and add me to your ignore list, so you can avoid the hassle of trying to decide whether or not I'm worthy of being listened to. In fact, I'd prefer it to a pissing contest. You wanna see how big my balls are? Use the search function.

 

[usayit]

I believe it takes study AND talent to be successful in almost any field. You cannot deny the importance of either.....

Many self taught people will down play formal study.
Many highly studied people will down play pure talent.

Both groups are snobs for not acknowledging the importance of both