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Will Canikon counter Pentax/Ricoh?

coastalconn

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On paper the K3 looks like the D400 or 7dm2 that many of us sports/wildlife shooter have been waiting for. Full Mag body, 8+ FPS, 24 mp and 23 shot raw buffer at $1300... Sensor shift and a switchable low pass filter.. wow. The AF system and tracking will be the big question mark, but looks like -3EV is a pretty. Also a multi-segment white balance system. The list continues and sounds pretty impressive...

Looks like lens selection might be a bit of an issue, but if sigma steps it up in 2014 as rumored, this might be a very viable system... Also judging by the lack of interest in the Pentax forum here I guess not too many people actually shoot pentax... Hopefully Canikon steps it up soon...
 
None of those stats sound terribly impressive, honestly. And several are more or less irrelevant for actual shooting (E.g. 23 raw buffer? That's 3 seconds of shooting straight at 8FPS, wha?? Buy a camcorder or at least switch to video mode if you want to shoot video.) And although together they add up to a slight increase added up as a whole over some other models, this all gets undone by the Achilles heel of poor autofocus that the company has suffered from generally. Tiny accumulated benefits for half a dozen things and then a major hit for one of the most important = overall pretty typical camera in its class compared to existing models. IF they have completely overhauled that this time for the better, than that will change things. If not, eh, good for people who already shoot Pentax, but not a game changer.

What IS attractive here no matter what though, is a full frame sensor coverage at $1300. I give you that. Even a bit cheaper than the 6D is a good step in the right direction for the industry.
 
Gavjenks, it isn't a FF camera. The body is a full magnesium build is what coastalconn was saying.
 
Oh weird, the first review thing I went to to check it out called it a full frame for some reason?

Well then. If it's just a crop, then it seems pretty much on par with existing 70D and D7100 etc. models overall. They all have their own little specialties, blah blah, but cost roughly the same and balance out to roughly the same thing.
 
I actually questioned the AF system in my original post.. canikon does not offer a modern day 24mp sensor in a full metal jacket with a buffer that deep and a switchable OLPF. You clearly don't shoot action wildlife so the speed and buffer has no advantage for you, but for many of us that are out in the woods everyday these specs are what we are looking for in a camera..
 
Pentax, IMO, has always been the most under-rated of the big names, and without a doubt, the one that delivered the best bang for the buck. I suspect that this offering, as most of theirs have been, will be a pretty decent piece of kit.
 
None of those stats sound terribly impressive, honestly. And several are more or less irrelevant for actual shooting (E.g. 23 raw buffer? That's 3 seconds of shooting straight at 8FPS, wha?? Buy a camcorder or at least switch to video mode if you want to shoot video.) And although together they add up to a slight increase added up as a whole over some other models, this all gets undone by the Achilles heel of poor autofocus that the company has suffered from generally. Tiny accumulated benefits for half a dozen things and then a major hit for one of the most important = overall pretty typical camera in its class compared to existing models. IF they have completely overhauled that this time for the better, than that will change things. If not, eh, good for people who already shoot Pentax, but not a game changer.

What IS attractive here no matter what though, is a full frame sensor coverage at $1300. I give you that. Even a bit cheaper than the 6D is a good step in the right direction for the industry.

Oh, dear Gavjenks, you show how totally unfamiliar you are with the desires of people who shoot "action" photos. Calling a 23-frame buffer "more or less irrelevant for actual shooting" shows how very out of touch you are with what "action" shooting photographers involved in sports, documentary, or wildlife/nature photography want to have. See, it goes like this: you manage to get yourself, and your equipment, into a location, and a shooting position, often at considerable financial expense, or time expense, or sweat-and-effort expense (sometimes all three!), and THEN, when some good action happens, the photographer needs a camera that is capable of shooting a good number of shots, often in rapid succession, during a BRIEF TIME FRAME.

Now, with the D7100 you mentioned, the RAW buffer in the "real world" is 6 frames...basically, one second's worth of the camera being operable. ONE SECOND, and you're done shooting? UN-acceptable. Period.

This has nothing to do with video, which I think is your way of imagining that shooting an action sequence is the equivalent of just a spray-and-pray exercise. What a deep buffer does is gives the photographer not just three seconds' worth of holding down the trigger, but it ALSO means the camera has the capability to shoot 3 to 4 frames per second, selectively, for a much,much longer time span, like say the approximate 11 seconds it might take for a college sprinter to run a 110-meter hurdles race, without the camera literally shutting down. A 23-frame RAW buffer would also allow the camera to remain "operable", as opposed to "locked up and unable to fire" during say, a 15- to 20-second encounter with say, a red fox teaching her kitts how to hunt, or any of thousands and thousands of other "action", sports or nature sequences.

On the osprey dive sequences that coastalconn likes to shoot, YES, having three full seconds, or 23 frames' worth of shooting available, would be a BIG, as in HUGE advantage, over the pathetic 6-shot RAW buffer the Nikon D7100 offers. In case you've missed it, the Nikon action shooting community using the D300 or D300s is pretty much clinging to its older bodies because the D7100's 6-shot buffer is a HUGE drawback in the type of shooting they want to be able to do; when the action is happening, they want to be able to shoot it--not wait while their camera is locked up, writing files to the storage card(s)...
 
Most Pentax cameras have had full metal bodies for several years now, so that is not new.

Nikon and Canon have bigger fish to fry than worrying what new camera Pentax has started selling. DSLR sales numbers are declining -quarterly.

What % of DSLR buyers do you think are sports/wildlife photographers? 5%? 20%? 50%
Most DSLR buyers never get their DSLR out of green AUTO mode, and fps rate, buffer capacity, and a metal body mean nothing to them.
 
Most Pentax cameras have had full metal bodies for several years now, so that is not new.

Nikon and Canon have bigger fish to fry than worrying what new camera Pentax has started selling. DSLR sales numbers are declining -quarterly.

What % of DSLR buyers do you think are sports/wildlife photographers? 5%? 20%? 50%
Most DSLR buyers never get their DSLR out of green AUTO mode, and fps rate, buffer capacity, and a metal body mean nothing to them.

Yet another post of yours with unassailable logic, KmH! lol

Well, we'd better reduce the top speed on ALL automobiles sold in the USA to 75 miles per hour! No need for higher speeds than 75 MPH.

We'd better stop making shoes larger than size 12...no need for big shoes, since most people wear a size smaller than 12.

Oh...Nikon has a Nikon Professional Services option? Nikon wants to make cameras for "perfessshunlll fuhhh-taaahhh-grafurrrs? Nikon? Really?"

http://nikonpro.com/Renewal-NPS-Equipment-List.pdf
 
Most DSLR buyers never get their DSLR out of green AUTO mode, and fps rate, buffer capacity, and a metal body mean nothing to them.

90% of the people I talk to with DSLRs hanging around their neck have that little knob in "Auto" mode... RARELY do I see anyone in manual, and when I do, you can tell they're either a professional or have been at this for a veeeeerryy long time. Also, an alarming amount of people I've talked to with DSLRs hanging around their necks had no idea the lens was even removable... Makes ME feel like an expert (I'm faaaaaaaaaar from an expert).
 
--words--
Okay, fine. Let's say that the ability to machine gun for seconds on end is just THE MOST IMPORTANT thing in the world to you. Whatever, that still doesn't make this any sort of game changer in the market. Because other similarly priced cameras are already in this range.

The Canon 7D for example is 4 years old now, and with up to date firmware, currently shoots at 8FPS and has a 25 RAW buffer as well. Also has the magnesium as well.

And it costs $300/$700 (depending on new/used) less than the K-3.

AND it almost certainly has a better autofocus system.




So I'm basically paying several hundred more dollars so that I can take off the low pass filter and have more restricted lens options and probably worse AF. If you already shoot Pentax, it's still well and good. Sounds like a fine camera. But the comparative advantage across brands is nil to zip, and this is not a motivator to switch brands and take the associated $$$ hit.

I was somewhat impressed when I thought it was full frame. But as a crop frame, this is basically just a slightly different take on existing stuff like the 7D, but for Pentax.
 
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--words--
Okay, fine. Let's say that the ability to machine gun for seconds on end is just THE MOST IMPORTANT thing in the world to you. Whatever, that still doesn't make this any sort of game changer in the market. Because other similarly priced cameras are already in this range.

The Canon 7D for example is 4 years old now, and with up to date firmware, currently shoots at 8FPS and has a 25 RAW buffer as well. Also has the magnesium as well.

And it costs $300/$700 (depending on new/used) less than the K-3.

AND it almost certainly has a better autofocus system.




So I'm basically paying several hundred more dollars so that I can take off the low pass filter and have more restricted lens options and probably worse AF. If you already shoot Pentax, it's still well and good. Sounds like a fine camera. But the comparative advantage across brands is nil to zip, and this is not a motivator to switch brands and take the associated $$$ hit.

I was somewhat impressed when I thought it was full frame. But as a crop frame, this is basically just a slightly different take on existing stuff like the 7D, but for Pentax.

No disrespect intended here but your arguement ids for the most part irrelevant. This post was not "will we swap brands", it was a question as to how canon will answer. Take the numbers and say it is not an improvement, sure mp may not be the all holy grail, but a camera that can take 23 raw files at 24mp, especially when the sony sensor being used is possibly an improvement with detail, noise and dynamic range, is a technological improvement over the 7d (this model being the one you compare).

Also how do you know the af system of the pentax is less than the 7d, are you psychic?

I had a 7d, liked it etc but technology is moving fwd and Pentax have always arguebly been one of the top camera makers in all but sales
 
Most DSLR buyers never get their DSLR out of green AUTO mode, and fps rate, buffer capacity, and a metal body mean nothing to them.

90% of the people I talk to with DSLRs hanging around their neck have that little knob in "Auto" mode... RARELY do I see anyone in manual, and when I do, you can tell they're either a professional or have been at this for a veeeeerryy long time. Also, an alarming amount of people I've talked to with DSLRs hanging around their necks had no idea the lens was even removable... Makes ME feel like an expert (I'm faaaaaaaaaar from an expert).

Auto mode yes, i am not surprised. A good friend of mine has a good Canon and it is always in auto mode. When I tried to tell him that there are better ways - he just said that he was perfectly satisfied with images taken in Auto mode. But DSLR owners with no idea about interchangeable lenses :shock::shock::shock::shock: - this is something. It just shows that DSLR market has grown disproportionally recently driven by the hype of digital technology revolution. It will shrink back to normal, and all these people are at best mirrorless cameras target audience.
 
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Most DSLR buyers never get their DSLR out of green AUTO mode, and fps rate, buffer capacity, and a metal body mean nothing to them.

90% of the people I talk to with DSLRs hanging around their neck have that little knob in "Auto" mode... RARELY do I see anyone in manual, and when I do, you can tell they're either a professional or have been at this for a veeeeerryy long time. Also, an alarming amount of people I've talked to with DSLRs hanging around their necks had no idea the lens was even removable... Makes ME feel like an expert (I'm faaaaaaaaaar from an expert).

Auto mode yes, i am not surprised. A good friend of mine has a good Canon and it is always in auto mode. When I tried to tell him that there are better ways - he just said that he was perfectly satisfied with images taken in Auto mode. But DSLR owners with no idea about interchangeable lenses :shock::shock::shock::shock: - this is something. It just shows that DSLR market has grown disproportionally recently driven by the hype of digital technology revolution. It will shrink back to normal, and all these people are at best mirrorless cameras target audience.

There was a guy I talked to with a Nikon D7100 last week. I was talking a little about how I want a good zoom lens, and he looked confused. He asked me what I meant by different lens, so I popped off my lens and his jaw dropped. Asked "HOW DID YOU DO THAT," and just about browned his pantaloons when I showed him how to do it with his... not the first time I've run into this either.
 
Well, a declining market for DSLRs and an underrated Pentax is all good news for me. By the time I decide to buy a DSLR, the used market for Pentax bodies should be in my price range...wait, let me rephrase that. Used Pentax DSLR bodies are already in my price range. But by the time I buy, perhaps the better ones will also be in my range. Don't know if I'll ever go up to a K3, but I'm planning on sticking with Pentax so it's interesting to see what new things they are coming up with. (I've already got four K-mount lenses and 3 screw mount + adapters - I have no desire to start building a new system. Pentax suits me just fine.)

And damn straight it's going to be set to manual, maybe sometimes in a priority mode. Even my dinky Canon SX130 is never set to Auto. ;)
 

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